David Alan Harvey on M10 vs iPhone

[sblitz]

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Not 90% but half of the interesting photoposts on this forum have already eliminated themselves over the last few years, including yours Mitch. No blame for the i-phone, but crude and thoughtless comments, specially in the German part of the forum. There were great photographers around but sadly many of them gave up.

 

DAH is no shrinking violet when it comes to giving his critique of one's work. No punches spared. Knew one teacher who went to have her portfolio reviewed by a pro and he/she so diminished her work she didn't shoot for a year. Point is, if you trust your vision and know why/what your are doing or even view the critics as part of the learning process (understanding who to ignore by the quality of their comments) you grow. Keeping your light under the bushel doesn't accomplish much. And therein also lies the point DAH was making -- shoot, find your vision, take the takes, grow, and none of that requires top equipment. 

[tonyniev]

I am struggling to understand this thread, I love to cook and I post to share with my large family and foodist friends, in FB, Instagram and my blog, images taken with my iPhone 6, however I make sure I add in most instances a reading lamp to create good lights. I agree one can you use the iPhone camera, what I am not understanding is how a photojournalist will use a smart phone to cover his beat or when creating photo essays and books.

 

My dad was an award winning photojournalist, he started as a young man with Time/Life but left the magazine when the Korean war brokeout as his family was growing, and when he was on his assignments, he used a Leica and Nikon F in 35 mm, and also 120mm with Hasselbald, later he moved to do commercial advertising photography, he basically used his Linhoff in the studio, he retired in NYC using an 8x10 camera with varying film sizes mostly color transparencies. 35mm and 120 mm for his on location shots for Hollywood or national magazines.

 

Before going to college I helped him as a gofer/assistant shooting calendars and images for high quality books, and never would he use a 35 mm camera to capture those images, he may use a 120 mm back on the Linhoff, he already passed away and I doubt if he will use an iphone today to capture family gatherings because even 10 yrs ago he preferred the higher megapixel digital cameras.

Edited July 25, 2017 by tonyniev

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[brill64]

mhicks - It is too cynical in this case, in my view.

 

peterhoffman - No one, including DAH, is saying that the iPhone is better than the M10 — actually he states the opposite in one the posts quoted above. However, in this case he is saying that someone starting out in photography, whose work he has looked at on Instagram, could do better to spend money on a workshop than spending it on camera.

 

For those who haven't seen it, here is a four-minute video of a flip-through of the Rio book that DAH referred to.

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Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

 

Brilliant! Leica should have let him keep the Monochrome..

[Likaleica]

Sounds like DAH was saying something similar to what Ansel Adams said:  "There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept."  

[rramesh]

The best camera is the one that is in your hands. And I often find the iPhone in that privileged place.

Edited July 25, 2017 by rramesh

[mhicks]

To me this is very, very basic.

 

It's context.

 

You come to a Leica forum, you will likely see people obsess over minute details about Leica products. The base population are people who own or want to own a Leica product.

 

Again, it's not a photography forum. If we were in a photography forum, the base population here would be a much wider swath of people, not just people who want ow own a Leica.

 

In that kind of forum, the post has currency and wouldn't even be debated. Well, in real life it wouldn't be, but because it's the internet, the need for air, food, and water would somehow be debated, but I digress.

[Guest]

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Was DAH's workshop fully booked?

[Guest]

...what I am not understanding is how a photojournalist will use a smart phone to cover his beat or when creating photo essays and books...

 

Perhaps you should look at the book DAH refers to, Libyan Sugar, that Michael Cristopher Brown shot with the iPhone 4. The book received the ICP's 2017 Infinity Prize awarded for photo books, and Brown is now a member of Magnum — though mind you, no one is suggesting you should shoot with an iPhone.

_______________

Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

[stephen.w]

I admire DAH, mostly for his enthusiasm and his championing of relatively unknown photographers, but must marvel at Apple's marketing coup: that this conversation (as well as other similar conversations) is about the iPhone (as opposed to other smart phones or small sensor compact cameras in general) vs larger, more serious cameras. Is there anything special about the iPhone in this respect?

[sblitz]

Was DAH's workshop fully booked?

 

usually oversubscribed, no shortage of people wanting to attend .... but he purposefully limits attendance.

[@ndy_ellis]

In the milliseconds before this debate is moved to a different part of the forum, has anyone seen results from the latest Huawei/Leica colab?

 

[found a review link over here but no longer avaiable https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/262980-huawei-p9-review/]

Edited July 25, 2017 by @ndy_ellis

[colint544]

I'd like to just chip in in favour of the modern smartphone as a serious camera. I have friends with the latest iPhone 7, and the pictures from that camera are incredible. The artificial blurring of backgrounds, to mimic a fast lens, is very convincing. 

 

I'm still getting by with the previous generation iPhone 6s but, even using that, I managed to create images which went on to be used in a successful exhibition last year. The prints were two and a half feet square, and the colours and quality were surprisingly good - http://www.streetlevelphotoworks.org/article/slp-members-exhibition-colin-templeton

 

There's definitely no reason now, not to take the smartphone seriously as a camera.

 

Best wishes all,

 

Colin

 

https://www.instagram.com/colintempleton/

[Guest]

You confirm DAH point; a quote from your site: "I've been a national press photographer for 22 years..."

Some of us here we have been Leica fondles for 30-50 years - so not much joy from an iPhone.

Edited July 25, 2017 by tri

[LocalHero1953]

In the milliseconds before this debate is moved to a different part of the forum, has anyone seen results from the latest Huawei/Leica colab?

 

[found a review link over here but no longer avaiable https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/262980-huawei-p9-review/]

I recently bought the Huawei P10. It was on my shortlist for its non-camera attributes along with the Samsung S8 and the Google Pixel, but it was curiosity about the Leica connection that persuaded me to jump.

 

I haven't had much opportunity to evaluate the camera quality, but I find the interface very intuitive and Leica-like to use once you get beyond the point and tap mode - perhaps more TL2 than M, but certainly not multilayered menu complexity.

[LocalHero1953]

Back to the original topic......

I'm tempted by the TL2, not least for its pocketability, though I suspect that I'd find the EVF a barrier to getting it in and out of the pocket easily - though I'm sure it comes off and goes on easily.

 

It's an interesting question how much our collective aversion on this forum to shooting without a viewfinder is down to habit, how much is down to the typically deteriorating eyesight of grey-haired (hairless in my case) Leica owners, and how much down to the innate superiority of a VF. After all, the classic LF and MF cameras all had rear screens or waist level finders. Many many people today seem to have no trouble adapting to a smartphone held at arms length (or even further, on a stick). Perhaps it's because their eyesight is better, and we won't admit it but look for a technical superiority in the VF?

[Guest]

LocalHero1953 - Moriyama Daido calls it "no finder" shooting. When still shooting film, he used the Ricoh GR1 and GR21 point-and-shoot cameras. These days he's shooting with small-sensor digital cameras. He's said that he likes shooting digital because he can decide later whether to make it a color or B&W image. 

 

In his 2016 exhibition, Tokyo Color, at the Fondation Cartier, his digital color shots show a similar aesthetic to his high-contrast B&W. His earlier film color, was often had pale tonality, while his early digital color looked, well — digital. But I liked a lot the color shots at the Paris exhibition.

_______________

Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

[S.Rolf]

S.Rolf - Depends on the reasons that you're buying it...

In the past, I bought Leica and Hasselblad mainly because of the quality of the glass and body.

I was always under the impression that without excellent glass the rest of the equation would fail.

In the digital world, you need excellent Sharpness AND Resolution right?

Is the iPhone's glass THAT good?

[LocalHero1953]

Back to the original topic......

I'm tempted by the TL2, not least for its pocketability, though I suspect that I'd find the EVF a barrier to getting it in and out of the pocket easily - though I'm sure it comes off and goes on easily.

 

It's an interesting question how much our collective aversion on this forum to shooting without a viewfinder is down to habit, how much is down to the typically deteriorating eyesight of grey-haired (hairless in my case) Leica owners, and how much down to the innate superiority of a VF. After all, the classic LF and MF cameras all had rear screens or waist level finders. Many many people today seem to have no trouble adapting to a smartphone held at arms length (or even further, on a stick). Perhaps it's because their eyesight is better, and we won't admit it but look for a technical superiority in the VF?

Hmm - I meant this to be in the "TL2 pocketability" thread!

Never mind, it fits as well here as there!

[Eric1]

LocalHero1953 - Moriyama Daido calls it "no finder" shooting. When still shooting film, he used the Ricoh GR1 and GR21 point-and-shoot cameras. These days he's shooting with small-sensor digital cameras. He's said that he likes shooting digital because he can decide later whether to make it a color or B&W image. 

 

In his 2016 exhibition, Tokyo Color, at the Fondation Cartier, his digital color shots show a similar aesthetic to his high-contrast B&W. His earlier film color, was often had pale tonality, while his early digital color looked, well — digital. But I liked a lot the color shots at the Paris exhibition.

_______________

Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

Daido is great. His photo philosophy is the one we should all strive for. Shoot whatever you want and hope for the best.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Tailwagger]

...It's an interesting question how much our collective aversion on this forum to shooting without a viewfinder is down to habit, how much is down to the typically deteriorating eyesight of grey-haired (hairless in my case) Leica owners...

 

At the risk of public stoning, I'll confess that there have been occasions, rare, but certainly more than once, where I have held my M at arms length and relied on LV.  This despite the fact that both my eyesight and my hair color make me clearly eligible for the club.  I'm personally not wed to any dogma around how the image must be collected.