Capture One cropping SL images on import

[tpf1952]

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When ingesting files from my Leica SL to a new catalog, Capture One is automatically performing a crop on my images. The crop appears to be proportional and roughly five percent. I have repeated this process several times using the same files (DNG) but creating new catalogs for each import. There is no way to correct this automatically -- e.g. -- selecting all images and then selecting the crop tool and clicking "reset" in the lens correction tool. The only way to fix is one image at a time. I have to look at an image in the browser, click the crop tool, then manually drag the shaded borders to the edge of the frame. This issue seems to affect only images taken with the Leica SL. A few moments ago I repeated the import process with images from a Leica M and no cropping occurs.

 

SL firmware is 3.0; Capture One is 10.1.2, OS is MacOS 10.12.6.

 

I am awaiting a reply from Capture One customer support, but am eager to make this work. I have 1.500 images to edit.

 

Anyone experiencing this? 

 

Kind regards,

 

Tom

[Ingo]

Does it look like on this screenshot? (The lighter area around the photo). This is quite normal because the sensor is larger than 6.000 x 4.000 pixel. You will not notice this in Lightroom or Photoshop but Capture One shows the additional pixels when cropping is activated.

 

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[tpf1952]

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Here's a screen capture that shows the cropping. It's more severe than in your sample above. The cropping appears on all images acquired with the Leica SL 24-90, but not with the Leica R 180 2.8 APO. Ingo, let me know if you would be willing to look at some raw files if that can help. 

 

Many thanks,

 

Tom

[Ingo]

unwanted crop 1.jpgHere's a screen capture that shows the cropping. It's more severe than in your sample above. The cropping appears on all images acquired with the Leica SL 24-90, but not with the Leica R 180 2.8 APO. Ingo, let me know if you would be willing to look at some raw files if that can help. 

 

Many thanks,

 

Tom

Sure, you can send a download link with some files via PN.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Ingo

[LD_50]

Check the resolution of your "cropped" images to see if they are 4000x6000 in the "cropped" area. If they are, you're seeing what Ingo described. It should match what you see in the viewfinder. Test by precisely framing in the viewfinder and comparing to the "cropped" area in C1.

 

It would only appear on images that have built in software corrections like the native lenses.

[tpf1952]

LD_50 and Ingo: I think I've figured it out. The explanation is embarrassingly simple: lens profiling.

 

When I view images in Capture One under the lens correction tool, I switch between profiles "generic" and "Manufacturer Profile." The generic profile reveals the entire image; the manufacturer profile imposes the crop. On an SL 24-90 set at 24mm, the crop imposed by "manufacturer profile" is severe. At 90 mm, the crop is virtually non-existent. Makes sense.

 

I presume I don't see variations in cropping when ingesting to Lightroom because Lightroom is Leica-friendly with lens-specfic profiles. 

 

Ingo: not sure what PN is, but sent a message to your contact address on your website.

 

Many thanks to you both for your responses. 

 

Tom

[tommydom]

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I know this is an old thread, but I just encountered this for the first time in C1 using the new 16mm-35mm lens. I had some shots at 16mm where this happened. Other test shots I did at all of the focal lengths on a relatively close range didn't exhibit the cropping - I it was not really that distorted.

 

The lens profile area is where you can shut down the cropping, or use the cropping tool to resize to the original.

 

Tommy.

[scott kirkpatrick]

There's a reality distortion field at work here.  LR gives you 6000x4000 pixels, take it or leave it.  They are corrected as the parameters in the DNG suggest.  There is an obscure option in LR to ignore the corrections and still have your 6000x4000 pixels.  CaptureOne uses the parameters in the DNG from any "designed for digital" lens like the 16-35 and 24-90 to expand the image to the scene actually captured, using more than 24MPx to do this.  It then displays (in the lens profile tool, with crop enabled) a suggested crop to 6000x4000 pixels, which can be expanded one or more image at a time.  The amount of distortion correction can also be adjusted from 0% to 120% of the recommendation contained in the file.  And people still say Adobe and LR is "more Leica-friendly." 

[frame-it]

people still say that ? they obviously haven't tried the latest C1

 And people still say Adobe and LR is "more Leica-friendly." 

[tpf1952]

There's a reality distortion field at work here.  LR gives you 6000x4000 pixels, take it or leave it.  They are corrected as the parameters in the DNG suggest.  There is an obscure option in LR to ignore the corrections and still have your 6000x4000 pixels.  CaptureOne uses the parameters in the DNG from any "designed for digital" lens like the 16-35 and 24-90 to expand the image to the scene actually captured, using more than 24MPx to do this.  It then displays (in the lens profile tool, with crop enabled) a suggested crop to 6000x4000 pixels, which can be expanded one or more image at a time.  The amount of distortion correction can also be adjusted from 0% to 120% of the recommendation contained in the file.  And people still say Adobe and LR is "more Leica-friendly." 

 

 

Scott, I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying: in other words, C1 imposes a crop, then upscales to restore 6000 x 4000?

 

Tom

[LD_50]

C1 shows you all the data captured by the camera, which is more than the 6000x4000 dimensions. It allows you to go outside the 6000x4000 that the default software correction imposes.

 

Lightroom only shows you the final default 6000x4000 image without allowing you to see all the data.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Scott, I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying: in other words, C1 imposes a crop, then upscales to restore 6000 x 4000?

 

Tom

Since this is widely misunderstood (by Sean Reid, for example). let's take it step by step, as spelled out in the DNG specifications.

 

A wide angle lens takes in extra information because of its barrel distortion.  It reaches furthest out at the corners, a bit less at the sides and least at the top and bottom.  (That is because everything depends on radial distance from the center of the image.) Once the rendering software has turned the image into R, G, and B values for each of the 24 M pixels, its next job is to map the captured pixels into the actual image that was in front of the camera.  The DNG file contains parameters to be used for each color to do this mapping, and they differ a bit between colors if some lateral color aberration is being controlled.  The result of the transformation is an extrapolation to an undistorted image with more pixels (in extreme cases as much as 1-2 M extra pixels!) but at the original pixel spacing.  The edges of the corrected image aren't straight, so you probably want to trim them, and the obvious first choice is to return to 6000x4000.  But the lens really saw more than that, and it is available in some rendering tools.

 

When I was learning how this works, I talked to Sandy McGuffog, who writes this kind of software.  His view was "think of the emails I would have to answer if I gave you anything other than the number of pixels you started out with."

 

Anyway, the sequence is extrapolate first, then crop as desired.

Edited May 26, 2018 by scott kirkpatrick

[tpf1952]

Brilliant, Scott. Thanks for sharing. Seriously.

 

Tom