chris_livsey Posted July 20, 2017 Share #1 Posted July 20, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311856658798?clk_rvr_id=1262365328142&rmvSB=true Two things that bother me are the state of the curtains, given the gentle brassing, and that interior base plate and tulip loader (where the loading diagram is) which look very used in comparison to the rest of the camera and in comparison to the mint/- of the actual baseplate, never seen an IXMOO!! My concern would be the body outer and internal mechanics may not be a "match" for whatever reason. I may well be wrong it's just an observation not fact or accusatory but what does others feel, is it my paranoia and trying to find a good reason not to press the button? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 Hi chris_livsey, Take a look here BP M4. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted July 20, 2017 Share #2 Posted July 20, 2017 The only thing that I can say is that, as for ME, I wouldn't buy such an item from a seller I can't discuss face to face with (and camera on the desk). 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted July 20, 2017 The only thing that I can say is that, as for ME, I wouldn't buy such an item from a seller I can't discuss face to face with (and camera on the desk). I agree that is the most persuasive argument I have been let down many times on very much less expensive items, that money I would not put at risk. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moritz Posted July 20, 2017 Share #4 Posted July 20, 2017 Hello Chris, the camera looks ok for me. The curtains of my black paint M2 look the same due to its age, they get a little stiff over the years. As this is a professional seller you have the right to return the camera within 14 days. So take the plunge if you like it. But beware of the customs when you get it send to Europe. Best Regards, Moritz Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted July 27, 2017 Share #5 Posted July 27, 2017 Hi Chris, the number is on the list so that's at least something. The brassing does look a bit too "coopery" but it's probably just the colour balance of the photos. On that note I didn't realise there is a brass ring underneath the shutter button. On my camera it's covered by dirt I do agree with Luigi though that it's best to buy from a dealer one can meet with, if possible. Or if not, it may be easier should troubles arise to deal with European shops. On that note Leica Store Berline has an M4 BP in stock https://www.leica-store-berlin.de/de/gebraucht/11059/leica-m4-schwarz-lackiert And, but I know it's not the same, but both Red Dot and Leicashop have black M4s, the 50 year one, for less. http://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/m-bodies/10890-leica-m4-black-jahre-50-year-body.html http://www.leicashop.com/vintage_en/leica/leica-m-cameras/m4-50-years/leica-m4-black-50-years-wetzlar-sku24725-2.html Just helping you spend some money Best Philip Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 27, 2017 Share #6 Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) If it is really a black enamel body, then that is a plus but the internals are the same as other models. I don't know about value. Others can help. Any old Leica is likely to benefit, perhaps not require, a CLA, which is no big deal. I have an unused black M4 in storage because I have no idea of worth. Not into collectibles. Buy, use it and be happy. Life is short. Edited July 27, 2017 by pico Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted July 27, 2017 Share #7 Posted July 27, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Chris, the number is on the list so that's at least something. The brassing does look a bit too "coopery" but it's probably just the colour balance of the photos. On that note I didn't realise there is a brass ring underneath the shutter button. On my camera it's covered by dirt I do agree with Luigi though that it's best to buy from a dealer one can meet with, if possible. Or if not, it may be easier should troubles arise to deal with European shops. On that note Leica Store Berline has an M4 BP in stock https://www.leica-store-berlin.de/de/gebraucht/11059/leica-m4-schwarz-lackiert And, but I know it's not the same, but both Red Dot and Leicashop have black M4s, the 50 year one, for less. http://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/m-bodies/10890-leica-m4-black-jahre-50-year-body.html http://www.leicashop.com/vintage_en/leica/leica-m-cameras/m4-50-years/leica-m4-black-50-years-wetzlar-sku24725-2.html Just helping you spend some money Best Philip Hello Everybody, I think that the "50 year" Leicas are black chromed. Not black paint. Best Regards, Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 28, 2017 Share #8 Posted July 28, 2017 I tend to think it has been refinished and then kept in a half case which would account for the lack of wear around the strap lugs and baseplate. Highlighted by Philipus the obvious coppery colour of the brass on the rewind lever may simply be down to colour balance, but brass can go coppery coloured during the stripping process to remove chrome plate........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mute-on Posted July 28, 2017 Share #9 Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) It looks real. Just like my late BP M4. The coppery brass on the rewind lever is very likely oxidation since it has not been polished back to bright yellow from use. It has probably been sitting unused for some time, at least while waiting for sale. I do not see any apparent signs of a repaint. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited July 28, 2017 by Mute-on 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 30, 2017 Share #10 Posted July 30, 2017 The coppery brass on the rewind lever is very likely oxidation since it has not been polished back to bright yellow from use. Just to note but brass does not turn red when it oxidises. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mute-on Posted July 30, 2017 Share #11 Posted July 30, 2017 I don't see red, but my monitor might be calibrated differently from others. It looks like typical brass oxidation to coppery bronze to me. In any event, did the OP purchase? J Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelwj Posted July 30, 2017 Share #12 Posted July 30, 2017 It doesn't look quite right to me. I see a little red too. Also, how do you get the paint wearing off on the advance lever under the shutter without wear anywhere else nearby? I've never seen wear like that before. All the more reason the get a BC M4, no one fakes them... yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 31, 2017 Share #13 Posted July 31, 2017 At that price I feel it would be reasonable for the camera to have had a CLA before sale. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted July 31, 2017 Share #14 Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) and, by definition it can't be mint as there are signs of wear. That word is inappropriately used far too often by vendors on eBay. Oh, and if I see that pet hate word 'Minty' I don't stop to examine it further. Edited July 31, 2017 by MarkP 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 31, 2017 Share #15 Posted July 31, 2017 Before I retired, I sometimes used to have lunch at our local, a well known pub in Spitalfields called "The Gun". The Scottish bartender there was the modern equivalent of a spiv and often had dubious goods for sale. One day it was very nice looking Ralph Lauren Polo sleeveless sports shirts. We asked him if they were real "Polo" and his reply was: "Well the seamstress was sucking a mint with a hole in it, while she made them" Strangely the three shirts I bought, have way outlasted some real Ralph Lauren shirts I bought later at their outlet stores and are still many washes later, as good as new. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 31, 2017 Share #16 Posted July 31, 2017 and, by definition it can't be mint as there are signs of wear. That word is inappropriately used far too often by vendors on eBay. Indeed, it drives me crazy. If the item is the original, sealed, unopened package then maybe, just maybe it is mint, but then we don't know until it is opened. Paradox? My mate deals in vintage printed fabrics and she feels the same way, although 'mint' is rarely used in her field. In an uncharacteristic cynicism she said she might auction a Mint Mint Box, but the idea lasted only as long as her statement. Gosh, she is a treasure. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 31, 2017 Share #17 Posted July 31, 2017 I have two items I have bought over the past couple of years, which when I got them, looked as if they had never been used. Even on examination with an illuminated sensor loupe I could detect no defects, wear or signs of use at all, a 50mm LTM series V Summicron and an LTM 35/2.8 Summaron. The Summicron came with box and papers, the Summaron in its bubble case. They were described by the sellers as in "mint condition" and I would not argue. My IIIg is almost mint but I suspect someone has swapped the bottom plate, which shows some wear unlike the rest of the camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted August 1, 2017 Share #18 Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) When I bought my M6ttl it was'mint'. It still had the protective film on the base plate, and the plastic insert in the film 'gate'. No signs of any marks on the pressure plate. It had been in a collector's glass case, and had been 'replaced' by an M7. The dealer had contemporary 50mm and pre asph 35mm Summicrons from the same source which had been similarly rejected in favour of the latest offerings. Gerry Edited August 1, 2017 by gyoung Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 1, 2017 Share #19 Posted August 1, 2017 I am almost feeling guilty about using my IIIg and 50 Series V Summicron - but not enough to make me stop using them Wilson 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share #20 Posted August 3, 2017 Sorry for dropping out of the thread I have been away from the UK for a week without web access. I have not purchased the camera and will wait until I find one that I can inspect in person. That is no slur on the seller but distance buying at that value is not comfortable for me, thank you all for the input, wise words on opinions indeed are valued and appreciated. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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