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B&H just canceled my order... They must not be expecting a fix anytime soon...

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I just heard from Leica MBS in Singapore, where I got my TL2.  They advised me to return the camera even though it's working now, out of concern that it may fail in the future.  They said the return offer is good only for the "batch" from which mine came.  

 

I will sadly heed their advice and return mine, though with much appreciation for the quick manner in which Leica has responded.  

 

On a brighter note, I still have my T (and a year of warranty remaining)... 

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I've not heard of a recall. But as I have already had contact with The Store in Sydney I may be "assumed" to be already informed. However I'm also assuming that the replacement I was supposed to get this week probably won't materialise until Leica are sure I'm getting one that works.

 

We should have a poll and see if we can concentrate the cause. It looks like the Visoflex. But yours works. My Visoflex was purchased this year. My camera is a black one. I wonder whether different batches of the camera or viewfinder are to blame or if it's all across the board?

 

Gordon

Mine's also black. I'll have a look at the box tomorrow to see when it was manufactured. I don't have a Visoflex (yet) - sold mine with my T some time ago.

 

I must say, I'm enjoying the camera so far with the 28 Summaron.

Edited by IkarusJohn

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My dealer says there will be a FW update the coming week to fix the problem.

 

Unfortunately, to me, it doesn't sound like something that can be fixed with a FW update, but hopefully I'm wrong.

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Unfortunately, to me, it doesn't sound like something that can be fixed with a FW update, but hopefully I'm wrong.

If the firmware update limits, for example, the maximum current draw of a particular component then it very well could fix the issue(s). 

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If the firmware update limits, for example, the maximum current draw of a particular component then it very well could fix the issue(s).

 

I certainly hope you're right. However, I question why Leica are physically recalling cameras if it's likely to be a FW fix.

 

Regards, Tom

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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If a camera is dead, a firmware update wont help. The Sale of Goods legislation in most countries would require a replacement in such circumstances as we are talking about a brand new product. A timely firmware upgrade, if effective, would meet the terms of such legislation. A company such as Leica should, of course, always seek to exceed the terms of such legislation in supporting its products and providing service to its customers.

 

William 

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It certainly sounds more serious than a simple FW fix. It would appear that something is shorting causing total failure. It may not happen to every camera but if Leica are recalling them why wouldn't anyone return their camera?

 

The sad part is the impact that this will have on Leica in terms of lost profits which they might otherwise have been able to plough into developing new products.

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I certainly hope you're right. However, I question why Leica are physically recalling cameras if it's likely to be a FW fix.

Regards, Tom

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Because when I buy a camera I trust it will work without an immediate update, that's why Leica want to update in factory before selling.

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Well, there was a piece on the Reddotforum about a firmware fix (of course, it won't fix broken cameras, but it might stop them breaking).

 

http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2017/07/leica-releases-statement-regarding-tl2-issue/

 

I've certainly heard nothing about a recall (except on this thread). 

I'm going to keep using my camera without the visoflex until there's a definitive answer - 

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It certainly sounds more serious than a simple FW fix. It would appear that something is shorting causing total failure. It may not happen to every camera but if Leica are recalling them why wouldn't anyone return their camera?

 

The sad part is the impact that this will have on Leica in terms of lost profits which they might otherwise have been able to plough into developing new products.

 

 

Because when I buy a camera I trust it will work without an immediate update, that's why Leica want to update in factory before selling.

 

 

 

There appears to be some confusion regarding whether or not it's an official 'recall' . When I contacted Ffordes from whom I bought my TL2 their advice was to continue using the camera if I was happy with it - and this was before the rumoured possible firmware fix. I'm happy to continue using the TL2 but taking the precaution of not using the Viso for the time being - even though so far it's not caused my camera any problems.

 

As regards potential 'lost profits' there will inevitably be lost sales but all manufacturers of any products have product liability and consequential loss insurances which likely cover most potential loss contingencies. We can be fairly sure that whatever the cause of the current TL2 problem, insurance claim professionals are currently dealing with it … and passing the buck to wherever it needs to stop … and in turn, others' lability insurances may well have to 'cough up' the cost … including underwriters in the reinsurance markets.  The main monetary cost to Leica will likely be their agreed claims excess … and yes, their reputation will suffer … but maybe no more than e.g. Canon's and Nikon's did when they experienced product failures and recalls. 

 

 

dunk 

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Since the T or TL is not Leica's top line like the M, Q or SL, I wouldn't worry about them too much. The unfortunate thing is in this release, and the original T, it is like they are made and tested by their B team. It will hurt the TL for the future, but not the rest of Leica unless these problems drift into the other cameras. Is sad because the TL deserves better attention.

Edited by Belle123

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Since the T or TL is not Leica's top line like the M, Q or SL, I wouldn't worry about them too much. The unfortunate thing is in this release, and the original T, it is like they are made and tested by their B team. It will hurt the TL for the future, but not the rest of Leica unless these problems drift into the other cameras. Is sad because the TL deserves better attention.

 

"it is like they are made and tested by their B team" That's not how things work. Look at all the problems Windows OS(s) have had with initial releases, and that OS has been the Microsoft flagship product for ages. We HATED having to do support for users who had just upgraded to, for example, WIndows 7 or 8 from XP.

 

American cars - "Never buy a model in its first year!"

 

If you want to use Leica as an example, look at the problems (!) the M8 had. Fuji? The XPro-1 was a mess when it was released and that camera has whole legions of fans now. 

 

From DP Review:

Conclusion - Cons
  • Slow autofocus compared to its mirrorless peers
  • Dysfunctional manual focus
  • Overly-conservative DOF scale useless for zone focusing
  • Poor auto ISO implementation (uses too-slow shutter speeds)
  • Live Histogram doesn't work in manual exposure mode (always implies correct exposure)
  • No face detection AF system
  • Unimpressive video mode
  • Limited control customisation
  • Continuous drive mode uses different filename convention
  • Very low playback magnification when shooting RAW only

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"it is like they are made and tested by their B team" That's not how things work. Look at all the problems Windows OS(s) have had with initial releases, and that OS has been the Microsoft flagship product for ages. We HATED having to do support for users who had just upgraded to, for example, WIndows 7 or 8 from XP.

 

American cars - "Never buy a model in its first year!"

 

If you want to use Leica as an example, look at the problems (!) the M8 had. Fuji? The XPro-1 was a mess when it was released and that camera has whole legions of fans now.

 

From DP Review:

 

Conclusion - Cons

 

  • Slow autofocus compared to its mirrorless peers
  • Dysfunctional manual focus
  • Overly-conservative DOF scale useless for zone focusing
  • Poor auto ISO implementation (uses too-slow shutter speeds)
  • Live Histogram doesn't work in manual exposure mode (always implies correct exposure)
  • No face detection AF system
  • Unimpressive video mode
  • Limited control customisation
  • Continuous drive mode uses different filename convention
  • Very low playback magnification when shooting RAW only
And.....what is your point? Edited by Belle123

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And.....what is your point?

That almost every product released these days has some issue and that's why we get firmware updates, that there is no Leica "B" team made up of television directors, telephone sanitizers, and politicians, and a fix is in the works. 

 

http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2017/07/leica-releases-statement-regarding-tl2-issue/

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That almost every product released these days has some issue and that's why we get firmware updates, that there is no Leica "B" team made up of television directors, telephone sanitizers, and politicians, and a fix is in the works. 

 

http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2017/07/leica-releases-statement-regarding-tl2-issue/

And, you know that. How? Do you work there? Are you in touch with their management? From your other replies, doesn't sound like you are.......but you know for certain. Hmmmmm. Did you buy the first T that was loaded with lots of firmware bugs? Have you experienced buying the M240 or M10 or SL or Q which were released in fairly solid condition? I rather doubt it.

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It appears to me that you are not aware of the close relationship between Leica and Reddot Forums.

Furthermore quite a few betatesters are members on this forum, some known, many unknown.

Leica firmware betatests run through this forum.

It would be wise to express your sceptiscism in a somewhat more restrained fashion.

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