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Leica T … tool camera


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Couldn't agree more with you on the body Joris. If Leica made a Q shaped body or an X Vario body with an evf in a TL mount they'd never keep up with demand. The TL2 body is almost like they don't want it to be too successful or it might steal from M,Q and SL sales.

 

Gordon

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Maybe it's incorrect to assume that at the time the TL2 was being developed with the new 24MP APS-C sensor, that there was also a suitable EVF available capable of being slotted into the camera - and which has the required resolution to make it best in its class. Unless there was, and until such time as there is such an EVF, we'll have to 'make do' with the VISO. And also consider that Leica probably needed to stop production of the T and TL due to (i) shortages of its now obsolete sensor and (ii) the fact that it is no longer competitive. Thus maybe, for the time being at least,, Leica had to market the TL2 asap and without a built-in EVF?  

 

Leica do not manufacture their own EVFs - they're made by contractors who likely have bigger contracts with higher priority customers. 

 

People tend to blame Leica for the apparent lack of this, that, or the other … but maybe we should consider if such shortcomings are always Leica's fault? 

 

dunk 

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Different strokes for different folks. I find the T or TL body and user interface very addictive, whereas I have a Q as well and don't find myself gravitating to it because I find it less fun to use. A little boring. The Q does great photos, but I would rather see it in the form of the TL body style, quite frankly.

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Different strokes for different folks. I find the T or TL body and user interface very addictive, whereas I have a Q as well and don't find myself gravitating to it because I find it less fun to use. A little boring. The Q does great photos, but I would rather see it in the form of the TL body style, quite frankly.

 

Fun is Great!  But preciseness combined with speed of operation might be preferred in other situations... 

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Fun is Great! But preciseness combined with speed of operation might be preferred in other situations...

 

Then get an SL. My goodness, just how did they manage to take great precise photos in the olden days with film and without all the auto stuff???!!!!! I always turn auto everything off! Is more fun that way. And some people are pretty darn precise and fast. If I need more speed, I would go buy an SL or Sony A9. You buy the tool that does what you need. Edited by Belle123
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Different strokes for different folks. I find the T or TL body and user interface very addictive, whereas I have a Q as well and don't find myself gravitating to it because I find it less fun to use. A little boring. The Q does great photos, but I would rather see it in the form of the TL body style, quite frankly.

 

I agree. Cameras need to be enjoyable. Almost anything makes decent pictures.

 

I just think the retro aesthetic is attractive to more people (Fuji?) than a hyper modern designs. Lots of photographers crave analogue controls for shutter and aperture. It's a huge factor when people say what they love about M and Fuji cameras. Properly done an XVario style camera could be achingly pretty. And pretty sells.

 

I'd also keep the interface. Touch is intuitive, especially with millennials.

 

Gordon

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I'd also keep the interface. Touch is intuitive, especially with millennials.

 

I agree.  I just wish there was a fast way to change spot focus.  If you eg. could program the video button to change the focus and then move the focus point around with the 2 dials without taking your eye of the EVF that would be perfect for me...

Edited by JorisV
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I agree.  I just wish there was a fast way to change spot focus.  If you eg. could program the video button to change the focus and then move the focus point around with the 2 dials without taking your eye of the EVF that would be perfect for me...

 

On some cameras (I can't remember which right now) when you're using the evf the bottom right quarter of the rear LCD automatically becomes a touch pad for selecting and dragging the AF point. I've not used it but it seems like an ideal solution.

 

Gordon

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On some cameras (I can't remember which right now) when you're using the evf the bottom right quarter of the rear LCD automatically becomes a touch pad for selecting and dragging the AF point. I've not used it but it seems like an ideal solution.

 

Gordon

 

That would be a very nice ergonomic plus to the system. Sort of like my Wacom tablet where I can predefine an area for the pen while touch affects the entire surface. Nice!

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I would always look at my cameras as tools first but Leica did change that perception a little with the M8. I loved my Rollei 6008 and my Sinar C2 but that was film, a different era for different markets. With film you need time to craft a shot, so loving those tools was easy for me.

 

I was looking for the right tool for a market and found the M8 to be the best solution at that time. The Canon and the M were be best set of tools to do that job. They complemented each other. Sitting down in 2009 I drew up the specs for what is essentially the current TL2 but times have moved on. So can it still do the job?

 

Actually yes. Except for one little detail. To do the job in this market currently, I trigger 6 Canons to capture the moment with pocket wizards. So how does one trigger 6 TL2s with pocket wizards? I'm figuring out a solution but it would be nice if Leica makes this easy.

 

Then why would I use a Leica TL2 vs a Canon 5D IV (I haven't bought a TL2 as yet but I do have the Canon 5D IV)? With the poorer battery life and being possibly less reliable in operation? Because I sold more pictures with Leica M8 than with Canon. That makes Leica a better tool for me.

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I agree. Cameras need to be enjoyable. Almost anything makes decent pictures.

 

I just think the retro aesthetic is attractive to more people (Fuji?) than a hyper modern designs. Lots of photographers crave analogue controls for shutter and aperture. It's a huge factor when people say what they love about M and Fuji cameras. Properly done an XVario style camera could be achingly pretty. And pretty sells.

 

I'd also keep the interface. Touch is intuitive, especially with millennials.

 

Gordon

Gordon, do you have a T or TL? With the two convenient thumb dials, I use them for changing shutter speed and aperture, or with an M lens attached I can use them to change speed and ISO or program what I want it to do with those thumb dials. As analog as a digital M. Just more convenient to the thumb than the M. It's fun. And right size in the hands.

 

Think what it boils down to is those of us that like the T design and those that don't. Period. Some like lots to of buttons and wheels to play with. Some don't. I am in the don't category. Give me a camera with less stuff to have to remember how to change what I want.

 

It's more modern. Yes. Is that so bad? I am no millennial, by the way. In grand parent age group. And never use a cell phone unless have to. So, it appeals to the older group too. Go figure, eh?

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I would always look at my cameras as tools first but Leica did change that perception a little with the M8. I loved my Rollei 6008 and my Sinar C2 but that was film, a different era for different markets. With film you need time to craft a shot, so loving those tools was easy for me.

 

I was looking for the right tool for a market and found the M8 to be the best solution at that time. The Canon and the M were be best set of tools to do that job. They complemented each other. Sitting down in 2009 I drew up the specs for what is essentially the current TL2 but times have moved on. So can it still do the job?

 

Actually yes. Except for one little detail. To do the job in this market currently, I trigger 6 Canons to capture the moment with pocket wizards. So how does one trigger 6 TL2s with pocket wizards? I'm figuring out a solution but it would be nice if Leica makes this easy.

 

Then why would I use a Leica TL2 vs a Canon 5D IV (I haven't bought a TL2 as yet but I do have the Canon 5D IV)? With the poorer battery life and being possibly less reliable in operation? Because I sold more pictures with Leica M8 than with Canon. That makes Leica a better tool for me.

 

I too had Canon 5 d's, plus a myriad of other systems, but similar to what you said - in the end , I got better looking photographs with my crop sensor Leica (XVario) so I sold all other equipment and went to the Leica's.  I will mention that I am not shooting commercial work and have no need to use multiple cameras etc.  I do use studio lights once in a while but just for my own amusement.  I find the color and presence with the Leica T and XVario to be perfect for me.

 

Rick

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Gordon, do you have a T or TL? With the two convenient thumb dials, I use them for changing shutter speed and aperture, or with an M lens attached I can use them to change speed and ISO or program what I want it to do with those thumb dials. As analog as a digital M. Just more convenient to the thumb than the M. It's fun. And right size in the hands.

 

 

Yep. I own a lot of current cameras. Interesting that you're not the first who asked if I own a T. I'm giving off some sort of vibe.....

 

35685807290_2cc19c398e_b.jpgDSC09000.jpg by Gordon Cahill, on Flickr

 

I'm not saying I don't like the TL. I am saying I think Leica would sell more if they traded on the retro aesthetic that Fuji copies directly off Leica (and to a certain extent Olympus does as well).

 

As far as comparing to the M goes. With the M I can set shutter speed and aperture with my eyes closed or with the camera turned off. Can't do that with a camera that has unmarked dials that spin endlessly. No where near analogue. More like a DSLR. You certainly can't tell what the settings are with the TL turned off. Or by looking at the top of the camera, which is what you see when you look down at it hanging on a strap. I don't dislike the TL user experience but it's not even related to the experience of the M.

 

The TL's closest interface relative is a Hasselblad.

 

Gordon

Edited by FlashGordonPhotography
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Yep. I own a lot of current cameras. Interesting that you're not the first who asked if I own a T. I'm giving off some sort of vibe.....

 

35685807290_2cc19c398e_b.jpgDSC09000.jpg by Gordon Cahill, on Flickr

 

I'm not saying I don't like the TL. I am saying I think Leica would sell more if they traded on the retro aesthetic that Fuji copies directly off Leica (and to a certain extent Olympus does as well).

 

As far as comparing to the M goes. With the M I can set shutter speed and aperture with my eyes closed or with the camera turned off. Can't do that with a camera that has unmarked dials that spin endlessly. No where near analogue. More like a DSLR. You certainly can't tell what the settings are with the TL turned off. Or by looking at the top of the camera, which is what you see when you look down at it hanging on a strap. I don't dislike the TL user experience but it's not even related to the experience of the M.

 

The TL's closest interface relative is a Hasselblad.

 

Gordon

My oh my. I should be impressed? Btw, I have the same Hassy. Love it!! And the T is pretty darn close to it and is one of the many reasons I chose it over the Fuji! And had many Ms from film to digital, among others along the way but I don't tend to collect as trophys. You can't take a picture with a digital M without it being turned on so your point is???

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Yep. I own a lot of current cameras. Interesting that you're not the first who asked if I own a T. I'm giving off some sort of vibe.....

 

35685807290_2cc19c398e_b.jpgDSC09000.jpg by Gordon Cahill, on Flickr

 

I'm not saying I don't like the TL. I am saying I think Leica would sell more if they traded on the retro aesthetic that Fuji copies directly off Leica (and to a certain extent Olympus does as well).

 

As far as comparing to the M goes. With the M I can set shutter speed and aperture with my eyes closed or with the camera turned off. Can't do that with a camera that has unmarked dials that spin endlessly. No where near analogue. More like a DSLR. You certainly can't tell what the settings are with the TL turned off. Or by looking at the top of the camera, which is what you see when you look down at it hanging on a strap. I don't dislike the TL user experience but it's not even related to the experience of the M.

 

The TL's closest interface relative is a Hasselblad.

 

Gordon

 

That's a massive investment  :)

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I too had Canon 5 d's, plus a myriad of other systems, but similar to what you said - in the end , I got better looking photographs with my crop sensor Leica (XVario) so I sold all other equipment and went to the Leica's.  I will mention that I am not shooting commercial work and have no need to use multiple cameras etc.  I do use studio lights once in a while but just for my own amusement.  I find the color and presence with the Leica T and XVario to be perfect for me.

 

Rick

I've the SL and considering the TL2 only as a tool, a lightweight remote camera to be deployed. It does look beautiful though. I did enjoy and learned a great deal using an M. Never expected to be humbled in that sense.

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Yep. I own a lot of current cameras. Interesting that you're not the first who asked if I own a T. I'm giving off some sort of vibe.....

 

35685807290_2cc19c398e_b.jpgDSC09000.jpg by Gordon Cahill, on Flickr

 

I'm not saying I don't like the TL. I am saying I think Leica would sell more if they traded on the retro aesthetic that Fuji copies directly off Leica (and to a certain extent Olympus does as well).

 

As far as comparing to the M goes. With the M I can set shutter speed and aperture with my eyes closed or with the camera turned off. Can't do that with a camera that has unmarked dials that spin endlessly. No where near analogue. More like a DSLR. You certainly can't tell what the settings are with the TL turned off. Or by looking at the top of the camera, which is what you see when you look down at it hanging on a strap. I don't dislike the TL user experience but it's not even related to the experience of the M.

 

The TL's closest interface relative is a Hasselblad.

 

Gordon

 

I've never owned that many different systems at the same time. I just don't have the mental ability to master that many.

 

Anyway I agree about the M experience which delighted me when I still had them. The focus tab is also another little gem of the system which thankfully I can use on the SL.

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I've never owned that many different systems at the same time. I just don't have the mental ability to master that many.

 

Anyway I agree about the M experience which delighted me when I still had them. The focus tab is also another little gem of the system which thankfully I can use on the SL.

And the focus tab works beautifully on the T or TL.

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My oh my. I should be impressed? Btw, I have the same Hassy. Love it!! And the T is pretty darn close to it and is one of the many reasons I chose it over the Fuji! And had many Ms from film to digital, among others along the way but I don't tend to collect as trophys. You can't take a picture with a digital M without it being turned on so your point is???

 

The point is that being able to see the camera settings when the camera is off allows you to either set them and/or check them as you reach for the camera. If you can utilise that feature it can be useful, sometimes. Again. I'm not saying it's better, just different and something some people appreciate over an interface that's hidden until the camera is powered up. In my user case It's something on the M I use and am glad to have.

 

Gordon.

 

p.s. Not expecting to impress. Took that photo on request from my daughter as we were talking about what newer gear was going to replace some older stuff and had the gear out to sort what was staying and what was going. I don't collect. Most of my cameras are required to pay their way. However I think it does confirm that when I compare X to Y I do so from actual experience not 5 seconds in a camera shop.

Edited by FlashGordonPhotography
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