rafael_macia Posted July 15, 2017 Share #1 Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I have been researching among the multitude of stabilization devices offered; both mechanical Stedicam/ Glidecam etc., and the electronic stabilizers i.e.. Ronin M, Moza Air, etc.. The popular Zhiyun Crane, I do not include because it has a weight limit of 3.9 lbs. The SL with the 15mm 3.5 S.Elmar weighs 4lbs 11 oz . If I use my 15mm Voightlander 4.5, which is light as a feather, the combo weighs 2lbs 14 oz. The electronic gimbals I have looked at, all block the SL's display. Cameras with swing out displays have an advantage in this respect. Does anyone have any recommendation for a good stabilizer? ..... Electronic or mechanical ..... and why you recommend them for use on the SL. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Rafael Edited July 15, 2017 by rafael_macia Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 15, 2017 Posted July 15, 2017 Hi rafael_macia, Take a look here Using a gimbal to do video?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Irakly Shanidze Posted July 16, 2017 Share #2 Posted July 16, 2017 I prefer a mechanical gimball paired with a two-handled cage. As to the display, if you want the best quality footage from your SL, get an external recorder/monitor. Not only you will get 10-bit 4:2:2 UltraHD (on some recorders full aperture 4K), but your monitor problems will cease to be relevant. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafael_macia Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted July 17, 2017 I found a Stedipod, which is a mechanical gimbal. The Stedipod is kind of a "Swiss Army knife", for all the things it can do. I fully understand the Stedipod may be less than it is shown to be ....but the person I bought it from who had just bought a Ronin M, told me it is absolutely easy to balance. I have heard nightmare stories about balancing mechanical rigs. If it only does that much ..... it will be fine. I still want to get a electric gimbal a Ronin M or a Moza Air. I had felt an external monitor was a must. Is there a cage or monitor you can recommend? Appreciate your help ! rafael I prefer a mechanical gimball paired with a two-handled cage. As to the display, if you want the best quality footage from your SL, get an external recorder/monitor. Not only you will get 10-bit 4:2:2 UltraHD (on some recorders full aperture 4K), but your monitor problems will cease to be relevant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irakly Shanidze Posted July 17, 2017 Share #4 Posted July 17, 2017 steadypod is fine. there are a few designs that essentially borrow from it. as a monitor, i use blackmagic design video assist 4K. it is not the most advanced device, as it allows maximum of UltraHD at up to 30fps and 1080p at up to 60fps. However, it is sufficient for most purposes, has dual XLR microphone connection, an excellent 1080p screen with focus peaking indication, scopes and an ability to load LUTs. It records to UHS I and II SD cards. with new high capacity cards already on the market, it is a much better option than SSD drives. alternatively you can take a look at new Atomos recorders. they are more expensive, but i think some of them allow full aperture 4K recording. what you absolutely need, though, is a 4K capable HDMI cable no more than 3 feet long. If you use something less than HDMI 2.0, you'll have skipped frames even with the fastest SD cards. as far as cages go... the only fully dedicated cage is made by LockCircle, but it is exuberantly expensive. if you are willing to spend five grand, you'll get a form-fitting titanium cage with a removable PL mount. there are much less sexy looking options that cost within a couple of hundred dollars. systematic cages from SmallRigs are actually not that bad at all. They also have a cage and mounting hardware for BlackMagic Video Assist 4K. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafael_macia Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share #5 Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) steadypod is fine. there are a few designs that essentially borrow from it. as a monitor, i use blackmagic design video assist 4K. it is not the most advanced device, as it allows maximum of UltraHD at up to 30fps and 1080p at up to 60fps. However, it is sufficient for most purposes, has dual XLR microphone connection, an excellent 1080p screen with focus peaking indication, scopes and an ability to load LUTs. It records to UHS I and II SD cards. with new high capacity cards already on the market, it is a much better option than SSD drives. alternatively you can take a look at new Atomos recorders. they are more expensive, but i think some of them allow full aperture 4K recording. what you absolutely need, though, is a 4K capable HDMI cable no more than 3 feet long. If you use something less than HDMI 2.0, you'll have skipped frames even with the fastest SD cards. as far as cages go... the only fully dedicated cage is made by LockCircle, but it is exuberantly expensive. if you are willing to spend five grand, you'll get a form-fitting titanium cage with a removable PL mount. there are much less sexy looking options that cost within a couple of hundred dollars. systematic cages from SmallRigs are actually not that bad at all. They also have a cage and mounting hardware for BlackMagic Video Assist 4K. All this information .......much appreciated! A big Thank You! also .... The cages by Lock Circle are absolutely incredible ! Edited July 17, 2017 by rafael_macia Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Gough Posted July 18, 2017 Share #6 Posted July 18, 2017 I have used my SL on a Pilotfly H2 with the 11-23mm Lens 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjdrijfhout Posted July 18, 2017 Share #7 Posted July 18, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) In fact, pilotfly has a new option, called the Pilotfly H2-45. It has placed the roll-axis under a 45 degree angle, giving you unobstructed view of the (non-articulating) LCD screen. It is the only one-hand gimbal I found that has applied this structure. I recently bought the H2-45 and am very impressed by this design, the build quality and long battery life. The weight limitation would theoretically accommodate the SL +24-90, but that does not work well. For it to balance such a heavy lens, it needs sliding to the back a lot and then the viewfinder hits the gimbal. Also, overall I find the combination too much on the limit and too top-heavy to hold in one hand. Two other options work very well: either M-lenses (I've tried 21mm lux and 35mm cron), or TL lenses. The first option is of course manual focus, but many people are using manual focus anyway in video and on gimbals. From the TL lenses I only have the 23mm cron, which works very well, but I would assume most if not all TL lenses work well. Especially when recording in 4K, using TL lenses on the SL does not give you any crop penalty in resolution. It basically behaves as a super-35 camera. Pilotfly sells a series of accessories that makes the system quite versatile, including a professional kit that allows you to convert your one-hand gimbal into a traditional two-hand gimbal. No experience with adding field monitor and/or recorder. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafael_macia Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) I have had the Pilotfly recommended to me. The placement of the Roll axis away from blocking the viewfinder looks like a great thing for the SL. I have all M lenses and some R lenses. I don't have any SL lenses. They appear to be too heavy for the motorized gimbals motor. An experienced gimbal using friend told me in general heavier camera lens combos work better on mechanical stabilizers, and lighter combos work better on motorized gimbals. I own two 15mm lenses which I can use on the SL. The 15mm 3.5 Super Elmar R lens, and the 15mm Version III Voightlander 4.5 M lens. The combined weight of Elmar and SL is 4 lbs 11 oz. The combined weight of the Voightlander and SL is 2 lbs 14 oz. Quite a difference ! From that difference, I could see using the heavier combo on the Stedipod mechanical stabilizer (once it arrives ..) and If I acquire a battery operated gimbal, I might be better off using the Voightlander lens/SL combo. I am going to investigate the Pilotfly system. The Ronin M is a bit big for my taste, although the results are said to be great. The MozaAir looks to be a bargain, but distributorship in the US is not firmly established. Lots of Chinese selling via ePrey using phony west coast shipping addresses. anyway ...... still looking rafael Edited July 18, 2017 by rafael_macia Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjdrijfhout Posted July 18, 2017 Share #9 Posted July 18, 2017 Agreed, the combi with the Elmar, although on paper would work, probably would not be a perfect fit. Also because the weight distribution all to the front of the lens. A Ronin-M or mechanical gimbal would probably be better fit for that. Voigtlander on H2-45 would make a very fine combo! Good luck with making your choice and let us know your experience. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafael_macia Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share #10 Posted July 18, 2017 Agreed, the combi with the Elmar, although on paper would work, probably would not be a perfect fit. Also because the weight distribution all to the front of the lens. A Ronin-M or mechanical gimbal would probably be better fit for that. Voigtlander on H2-45 would make a very fine combo! Good luck with making your choice and let us know your experience. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I agree about the weight choices.Yes if that happens ....... funds are low...... I will post results. I love the Voightlander 15. Sharp as a tack, and weighing only ounces. But against the Super Elmar the Voightlander is lacking in "punch". It is almost like a beautiful woman without makeup ..... the Elmar has makeup on ....... anyway, I will set out with the Elmar/SL combo on the Stedipod first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amoebahydra Posted August 4, 2017 Share #11 Posted August 4, 2017 I am using gyro from Ken-Lab ...................... http://www.ken-lab.com/ Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/274467-using-a-gimbal-to-do-video/?do=findComment&comment=3329901'>More sharing options...
Irakly Shanidze Posted August 5, 2017 Share #12 Posted August 5, 2017 I am using gyro from Ken-Lab ...................... http://www.ken-lab.com/ Seems unreasonably expensive... For 5K one can get a drone capable of carrying the SL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted August 5, 2017 Share #13 Posted August 5, 2017 ... I own two 15mm lenses which I can use on the SL. The 15mm 3.5 Super Elmar R lens, and the 15mm Version III Voightlander 4.5 M lens. The combined weight of Elmar and SL is 4 lbs 11 oz. The combined weight of the Voightlander and SL is 2 lbs 14 oz. Quite a difference ! .... May I suggest using the Leica Vario-Elmar TL11-23? It weighs (395 gm with hood) a little less than half the weight of the 3.5 Super-Elmar, goes wider, and is probably as sharp or sharper. Offers a bit of flexibiity, too. scott 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irakly Shanidze Posted August 6, 2017 Share #14 Posted August 6, 2017 May I suggest using the Leica Vario-Elmar TL11-23? It weighs (395 gm with hood) a little less than half the weight of the 3.5 Super-Elmar, goes wider, and is probably as sharp or sharper. Offers a bit of flexibiity, too. scott it is a great suggestion for 4K. for 1080p it is better to shoot full-frame. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted August 7, 2017 Share #15 Posted August 7, 2017 it is a great suggestion for 4K. for 1080p it is better to shoot full-frame. I was wondering about that. What area of the chip does the SL use to generate a 1080p video stream? The technical reference/manual doesn't say anything that I could find about this. And if 1080 is meant to use the full chip width, what happens when you put on a TL lens? A second question, how effective is the in-camera digital stabilization, compared with post processing in FCPX or DaVinci? Does it differ between 4K and 1080? You can see that I have happily stuck to C4K@24P so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted August 7, 2017 Share #16 Posted August 7, 2017 (edited) continuing the previous note -- On my SL (firmware 3.0), with a TL lens installed, video image stabilization is greyed out in all video modes: 4K, UHD, HD, 720; MOV or MP4 containers. And with a TL lens, all video modes show the same field of view. So the restriction to a super 35 region of the chip and video stabilization (if it is actually present) are not compatible. Did a quick check with an R lens on the R to SL Leica adapter, and the view is apparently full frame in 720 or 1080 modes, so I guess the video output is taken from the full chip. video image stabilization is still greyed out. scott Edited August 7, 2017 by scott kirkpatrick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irakly Shanidze Posted August 8, 2017 Share #17 Posted August 8, 2017 I was wondering about that. What area of the chip does the SL use to generate a 1080p video stream? The technical reference/manual doesn't say anything that I could find about this. And if 1080 is meant to use the full chip width, what happens when you put on a TL lens? A second question, how effective is the in-camera digital stabilization, compared with post processing in FCPX or DaVinci? Does it differ between 4K and 1080? You can see that I have happily stuck to C4K@24P so far. Anything below UHD is full frame. Both 4K formats are Super35. When you mount a TL lens, the camera automatically defaults to APS-C, and in the video mode to Super35. This is logical, as TL lenses do not cover the full frame. I have to check about stabilization with TL lenses... Good question. I'll let you know tomorrow. As to what is more effective, DaVinci Resolve is probably the best, because it can stabilize the image in several different ways, and you can always choose the most suitable one. However, the more stable image you bring into DaVinci Resolve, the better your final result will be. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafael_macia Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share #18 Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) I am using gyro from Ken-Lab ...................... http://www.ken-lab.com/ I had forgotten about Ken-Lab, and always thought gyros were for aerial photography. Although probably somewhat heavy they are surely a hell of a lot more compact. Something to think about. Still staring at the Stedipod I got and slowly getting closer to balancing it. A gyro would eliminate all that .... hmmmm ....... Edited August 10, 2017 by rafael_macia Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lx1713 Posted August 10, 2017 Share #19 Posted August 10, 2017 I had forgotten about Ken-Lab, and always thought gyros were for aerial photography. Although probably somewhat heavy they are surely a hell of a lot more compact. Something to think about. Still staring at the Stedipod I got and slowly getting closer to balancing it. A gyro would eliminate all that .... hmmmm ....... I have looked at gyros for a long time but never did get one because I always manage a stills solution somehow or the job didn't have the budget. With video, most people recommend the electronic gimbals over the gyroscope even though they have not experienced gyros. Gyros being more ancient solution and gimbals a modern solution. Overall, because of their long lifespan, mature tech and more robust, compact construction, I have always consider them as a viable possibility. Gyros seem to be similar in weight to the gimbals (except for the battery) for equivalent camera load. Some of the testimonies are encouraging. Gimbals look to be a lot more flexible though. I hope someone with actual experience can chime in with an opinion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lx1713 Posted August 10, 2017 Share #20 Posted August 10, 2017 Seems unreasonably expensive... For 5K one can get a drone capable of carrying the SL. I do agree but if it can last a decade with care, I wouldn't mind. I think a KS 4x4 doesn't cost 5K. I'm currently doing only stills with the occasional video with the SL, so a gyro or a gimbal isn't high on my list as yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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