Stepping into the R System

[Keith (M)]

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Am seriously considering adding an R to my film M's (M7, MP, IIIg) and have my eye on an R-E (exc+ & six month guarantee). Why an R-E?  Well, weight and size are important factors and I only use either aperture-priority or manual.  So then it becomes a question of which lens? Film M lens usage is circa 40% 50mm, 35% 35mm and 25% 28mm.  Delving into my copy of E. Puts's Leica Compendium, he is not particularly enthusiastic about the Summicron-R II 35mm and Summicron 50mm's seem thin on the ground.  Just a 28mm might be too limiting.  I used to have a Contax G2 outfit which included their 35-70mm zoom and as usage of the R will probably mostly be for travel I am tending to think the Vario-Elmar 35-70mm f3.5 might be the answer.  The max aperture might be somewhat limiting though.  

 

Any feedback on using the 35-70mm as a stand-alone lens (general usage + travel) on an R would be appreciated.

 

 

[otto.f]

If you studied Puts you'll have come to the right 35-70 I presume; there have been a few variants of this middle range zoom and some have been real mediocre. Your final question is impossible to answer I'm afraid, that is completely dependent on your goals and drives. Personally I don't like zooms because of max apertures and IQ. The Summicron 35 in the Mandler version is a stunning lens with beautifull bo-keh, even better than its brother for the M, the Summicron 35 pre-asph mk4. If I were in your place, I'd go for the Elmarit 60 Macro 2.8 to start with.

Edited July 12, 2017 by otto.f

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[gbealnz]

Good on ya Keith.

I'm sort of heading more to the R and less of the M, finding the R/F experience not as nice as I used to, glasses, old age etc, all those things you won't be LOL.

 

I have had a nice old black paint SL for years, a gift from a long gone friend. It had a nice 2 cam 50/2 on it, and just recently I sourced a nice R6. Of course the 2 cam 50 works, but not as well as it could, stop-down metering etc. I also have a nice 3 cam 35/2 (E55).

 

So I found a decent later 50 Summicron (E55) and am now as happy as the proverbial pig in that brown stuff. Both of them will travel with me in a month to Europe. Yes a couple of M's and a 35/2 and 50/2 would be lighter, but not a great deal.

 

In answering your original question though, I owned for a few years a  nice R8, I'd always thought of them as quirky, ungainly, awkward cameras. It had an R28-80 on it as well, and the combo while not lightweight or compact really was a joy to use. No, it wasn't a low light machine, but the range 28-80 was a very handy one, covering virtually all I needed.

 

The R-E I understand is virtually an R5, so you will not be disappointed, and with the 35-70 you'll have all you want/need.

Gary

[Per P.]

I have started using R-lenses with my SL when I don't want to carry the rather large SL 24-90 zoom. From a handling and picture quality perspective I have found the 35-70 to be a wonderful all-round zoom. I love the look of the photos it produces. Of course I have an advantage of high ISO with the SL so my only drawback is that the blurry background effect is a bit limited. 

[AZach]

Also very happy with Vario-Elmar R 35-70/4 on SL.

[T.E.]

Go for the latest version of the Vario-Elmar R 35-70/4 (ROM). You won't need the ROM function but then you can be sure to get a really good multi-purpose (incl. a satisfactory macro option) zoom lens for traveling etc. I either go out with several primes or simply grab my favourite R8 with the 35-70. Highly usable, not too big for an R lens, short focus and zoom throw.

The only downside: screw-mount lens hood - try using a polarizer with lens hood in place

[otto.f]

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The 3.5-4.5/28-70, 3.5/35-70, 4.0/35-70 and the 2.8/35-70 asph macro are all very different in IQ

[Keith (M)]

Thanks all for the comments & advice.

 

If you studied Puts you'll have come to the right 35-70 I presume; there have been a few variants of this middle range zoom and some have been real mediocre. Your final question is impossible to answer I'm afraid, that is completely dependent on your goals and drives. Personally I don't like zooms because of max apertures and IQ. The Summicron 35 in the Mandler version is a stunning lens with beautifull bo-keh, even better than its brother for the M, the Summicron 35 pre-asph mk4. If I were in your place, I'd go for the Elmarit 60 Macro 2.8 to start with.

If I were to choose the 35-70mm f3.5 it would be the later E67 version. Have not come across the f4 version for sale so far. I had been considering the 60mm Macro f2.8 for a stand-alone lens and there a quite a few on the market.  Have read some flattering reports on it, including E. Puts.

 

Good on ya Keith.

I'm sort of heading more to the R and less of the M, finding the R/F experience not as nice as I used to, glasses, old age etc, all those things you won't be LOL.

 

The R-E I understand is virtually an R5, so you will not be disappointed, and with the 35-70 you'll have all you want/need.

Gary

Gary - well as I entered my eighth decade late last year and wear spectacles we might be in the same boat!  

My search for an R body plus a first lens (better not mention that 'first' bit in my wife's hearing!)  continues.  Have just seen a R5 with 12 months warranty and despite me saying that I do not need the added complexity, the spot-metering function could be quite useful.

 

Again, thanks to all and and further input welcomed!

[gbealnz]

Don't think you can go wrong Keith to be honest, not a lot of money in Leica terms anyway. R5 has "spot" and "average", I think Leica term them selective and integrated, (sounds like our kids hearing).

R-E, being a lightly dumbed down but still very competent, camera has both metering modes, but only has A and M, so not Shutter Priority, nor Program.

I'm in the same "find one" mode right now, so PM me if you want to continue this.

Gary

[otto.f]

Well the R-E with 6 month and the R5 with 12 month warranty: I wouldn't hesitate about the R5. Also because in those days o f the nineties it was said that the R5 had a better record of failures and repairs than the R-E, FWIW.

[SilentShutter]

The R-E was produced after the R5 which it is based on so of course Leica took the time to fix it.

But generally the Leica R5 had a good reputation compared to the Leica R4 or first batch of Leica R3 if I remember correctly.

 

The R 3,5-4,5/28-70 came out with the R-E and was based on a optical Sigma formula

I had it for a while used as a universal travelling lens but I was never satisfied with its results to be honest

so I sold it again very quickly

 

Maybe the R60 Macro would be the best to pick for the start and add a R24 to it later ?

[jip]

If you want to go with a 35-70 get the F4 not the F3.5 the later is a minolta design.

 

The Vario-Elmar-R 1:4/35-70mm Macro is actually an lens with an ASPH. element, leica never put it on the lens because they were afraid it would take sales away from the Vario-Elmarit-R 28-90 and Vario-Elmarit-R 1:2,8/35-70 

 

The 35-70 F4 is an amazing lens I use it a lot when I just bring one lens, usually together with a 50mm just for when I need that bokeh or more light.

 

The 35-70 is at 50mm however BETTER  (sharper) than the 50mm summicron-r at the same aperture! 

[jip]

These shots are both with the Vario-Elmar-R 1:4/35-70mm Macro on the Leica R8 with TRI-X and Kodak Gold 200.

 

 

[Keith (M)]

If you want to go with a 35-70 get the F4 not the F3.5 the later is a minolta design.

 

The Vario-Elmar-R 1:4/35-70mm Macro is actually an lens with an ASPH. element, leica never put it on the lens because they were afraid it would take sales away from the Vario-Elmarit-R 28-90 and Vario-Elmarit-R 1:2,8/35-70 

 

The 35-70 F4 is an amazing lens I use it a lot when I just bring one lens, usually together with a 50mm just for when I need that bokeh or more light.

 

The 35-70 is at 50mm however BETTER  (sharper) than the 50mm summicron-r at the same aperture! 

Which probably explains why I have not yet seen one for sale (at main dealers anyway).  Thanks for the example images!

 

PS - just seen one (boxed with original paperwork) on eBay.uk at £738.  Quite a big jump over the price of the E67 f3.5 version.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Keith (M)

[gbealnz]

Like I said Keith, I had the R28-70, and I believe this is a Sigma lens?

While some consider it inferior I found it more than adequate, so if you have the chance to at least try one, do so. At worst you'll not buy it. Mine was the ROM version.

Gary

[Per P.]

If you want to go with a 35-70 get the F4 not the F3.5 the later is a minolta design.

 

The Vario-Elmar-R 1:4/35-70mm Macro is actually an lens with an ASPH. element, leica never put it on the lens because they were afraid it would take sales away from the Vario-Elmarit-R 28-90 and Vario-Elmarit-R 1:2,8/35-70 

 

The 35-70 F4 is an amazing lens I use it a lot when I just bring one lens, usually together with a 50mm just for when I need that bokeh or more light.

 

The 35-70 is at 50mm however BETTER  (sharper) than the 50mm summicron-r at the same aperture! 

 

 

It is also the 35-70 F4 version that I have and was commenting on. I went through the same research as several other thread contributors and found the F4 best overall. Mind you, I was looking for something compact which spoke slightly against the R28-70. I paid $850 on Ebay for mine in mint condition earlier this year.

[T.E.]

If you want to go with a 35-70 get the F4 not the F3.5 the later is a minolta design.

 

The Vario-Elmar-R 1:4/35-70mm Macro is actually an lens with an ASPH. element, leica never put it on the lens because they were afraid it would take sales away from the Vario-Elmarit-R 28-90 and Vario-Elmarit-R 1:2,8/35-70 

 

The 35-70 F4 is an amazing lens I use it a lot when I just bring one lens, usually together with a 50mm just for when I need that bokeh or more light.

 

The 35-70 is at 50mm however BETTER  (sharper) than the 50mm summicron-r at the same aperture! 

 

I can fully confirm this, my Vario-Elmar 35-70/4 clearly outperforms my Summicron 50/2 at 50 mm (except of course at

 low light conditions), I would not say the same, however, for the Macro Elmarit 60/2.8, here the Marco Elmarit has the lead over the Vario Elmar set at 60 mm. 

[jip]

Also remember a nice thing about the Vario-Elmar-R 1:4/35-70 Macro is that it's macro use is at the long end (70mm) which is great, it's a bit milky though at closest focusing distance at F4, but gets really good at F5,6-F8 smaller aperture than F8 made the images milky again due to diffraction, F11 is still usable if you NEED extra the depth of field. 

[jip]

Also take a look at my Flickr album 'Analog' here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsjJ8dJCa

 

most photos are with my R8, in the description you can read what gear was used on most images.

 

All photos are scanned with my Nikon Super Coolscan 4000. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by jip

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[otto.f]

Leica started with zoom-lenses relatively late. Until that time Angenieux was the way to go for R zooms. It's like BMW that didn't produce engines smaller than 1600cc; you could infer that they found that under that level the reputation of the brand would be jeopardized. So the zooms of Leica are actually only really good from the period 2002-2008, I think before 1990 they found they couldn't do it good enough.

So if you'd want to step into R royally or sheik-ish, you'd step in with the 21-35 and the 28-90 and you're done and ready. The 28-90 is about as good as the APO-Summicron 90, just doesn't go wider than 4.0. One disadvantage though: ergonomically they're fitting better on the R8 or 9. But aren't all zooms?

Edited July 14, 2017 by otto.f