Kupepe Posted July 11, 2017 Share #1 Posted July 11, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, After my father's death I got my hands on his Pentax MX. A way to be close to him I guess. This was the camera he taught me, as a kid in the 80s, about exposure and focus. When he died and started playing with it, I really could not understand why people would find it hard at start to go from digital to film. It's 3 knobs and a button. Anyways, I am shooting film for some time now and I am sticking with this hobby. I might be getting old and prefer walking around the city for 4-5 hours than doing sports I guess... I am seriously thinking for buying an M camera. I know it wont make me a better photographer, but in my life having the best toys on a field makes you play with them more and have more fun. So my budget is either for an M3/4 or an M6. My only concern is the lightmeter. I would not carry a light meter on me or use the add-on on the M3/4. IMHO it ruins the form and that is important for me regarding my "toy". I read about people working with M3/4s that they don't really need a lightmeter, after experience kicks in. So I would like some more input on the practical, everyday life on the matter. Thank you in advance 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 11, 2017 Posted July 11, 2017 Hi Kupepe, Take a look here Back in film for 2 years. Time for an M .... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
becker Posted July 11, 2017 Share #2 Posted July 11, 2017 Welcome , inform Your selfe about the different magnifications of M3 an M4 and the shortest distance options. M3 has a RF magnification which is fine for 50 mm and a bit longer. Shortest distance is 1 Meter. 28 / 35 / 50 is okay on the M4 which is the classic street tool. The M6 has an included lightmeter works like a MP without the brass body. Available in different magnifications. Shortest dist. 70 cm. If the glass does not limits. I started with a street dealed M2 with knob rew . and a collapsible Elmar 5 cm and the 35 Summaron, that was great experience although the M2 needed costy repairs. Which can be normal. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kupepe Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted July 11, 2017 So what is the practical everyday life with an M without a lightmeter ? Steep learning curve ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
becker Posted July 11, 2017 Share #4 Posted July 11, 2017 An M2 ore an M4 plus an I Phone with lightmeter App may be a way . Youll learn for shure too, Im lazy and now have a MP. The M4 is younger and has an high level smooth mechanic unit in it--- The M2 the same has a very purisitc view finder --- for some there is no better ;-) I would plan to get not too expensive makes is more relaxed, M2 and Elmar 5 cm or 35 Summaron. fe One glass one film one developer makes it easier too-- 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp995 Posted July 11, 2017 Share #5 Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) So what is the practical everyday life with an M without a lightmeter ? I use a very tiny Gossen Digisix for my cameras without integrated meter. Works really great and after a while the experience helps not to meter every shot BTW: My M2 was the most beautiful Kamera I ever had; bought it 4 years ago... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited July 11, 2017 by cp995 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/274318-back-in-film-for-2-years-time-for-an-m/?do=findComment&comment=3313203'>More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted July 11, 2017 Share #6 Posted July 11, 2017 The Pentax MX is a nice camera. I've used both Leica and Pentax since the 1960s. If you can find a nice one, go for the M6. I've used one since 1985, and the lightmeter readout in the finder is my favorite type, easy to see and use. I've also used an M4 since 1968, and the older Ms are very nice, but I still reach for the M6 most often. Part of your learning curve will be that Pentax lenses turn focus and aperture rings reversed directions from Leica! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 11, 2017 Share #7 Posted July 11, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) The M6 has a lightmeter built in so if you are concerned about metering and can afford an M6, that's the one to buy. Other options are a smartphone app (assuming you have a smartphone) or learning the 'Sunny 16' method of exposure - google it. Colour and B&W negative film both have quite wide latitude for exposure. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted July 11, 2017 Share #8 Posted July 11, 2017 Sorry for the lost of your father. I switched from metered Bessa R film rangefinder camera (cheap M6) to M4-2 and it made me if not better photographer, but to understand light better. And I'm quicker. With TTL meter I became dumb. All I was doing is making this exposure indicator happy. You are not looking on speed dial or aperture, you are operating it like machine. After year and half or so I completely lost sense of light. Which is ISO, aperture and shutter speed combination. TTL metering almost killed it. "Likely" Bessa R was made not robust enough to carry on for every day and I sold it cheap to get M4-2. My sense of light is back then. iPhone meter or simple Sekonic-208L are enough and actually more advanced than just TTL. They key is to stick with one ISO film and measure light just for practice. It is fun, btw. And modern BW film is very forgiving. If not sure, overexpose, always. On this example I accidentally have lens wide open (f1.5) and film is one of the tricky ones (Pan F). Let the light be with you. 15 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spydrxx Posted July 11, 2017 Share #9 Posted July 11, 2017 Hi Kupepe and welcome to the forum. I began photography with an external light meter and a RF camera in the 1950s. By the late 1960s I learned that for most practical purposes, a light meter wasn't essential...nice to have for unusual situations, but not really necessary. Light didn't change that much during the day from hour to hour, and my Kodachromes generally came out just fine by using the sunny 16 guidance (at that time it was printed on the inside of each box of film). Generally if I do use a meter with these older cameras, I'll meter at the beginning of my shooting session and not worry about changes thereafter, unless there is a dramatic change in lighting. My more modern bodies have light metering built in, but I merely use that as starting point for exposure, adjusting based on a lifetime of experience. Light meters (reflective )without a human brain behind them to adjust for things like colors IMHO are like driverless cars...they may get you to your destination safely, but with a driver the ride is much more enjoyable. If you need a meter, I'd strongly suggest an incident one. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwolf Posted July 11, 2017 Share #10 Posted July 11, 2017 Kupepe, I'll share my reasoning for recently choosing an M6. I use it like one would use their meterless camera while carrying a pocket meter. I take a reading at something middle gray, then leave it alone or make small adjustments until I feel another reading is necessary. I figured, why carry two devices when I can carry one? I'm comfortable with Sunny 16, but not so much indoors. And the attention that would otherwise go to exposure can instead go to looking. I'm only a few rolls in, but so far my contact sheet, across all lighting situations, look great. So glad I went this route. John 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
105012 Posted July 12, 2017 Share #11 Posted July 12, 2017 Recently I did an advanced darkroom course and in reviewing the various sheets of negatives I brought with me, the instructor unprompted remarked at the high quality of the exposures which would make our subsequent printing time so much easier. The instructor is someone who has been printing a wide variety of negatives over many years. I make this remark because I judge 90+% of my exposures by eye, but only started doing this 2 or 3 years ago, so it seems to me like an easy thing to learn and to become instinctive. I just know "this is f/4" "this is f/8" "I want to shoot this at f/2 to look after the shadow" etc For my style of photography the M3 is the best Leica every made. The frames around the front windows keep ones fingers from smudging the windows and allow one to easily eliminate the rangefinder patch (which I seem to need to use less and less because I am unconsciously focussing the lens as I raise the camera to my eye). The viewfinder is like no other. The shutter of a well serviced one is for some reason the quietest I have heard amongst all Leica's, here is what Erwin Puts had to say in his M-A review: "The shutter noise profile is a very short but audible pitch. In this respect we are very spoilt and the famous Leica whisper is no longer with us. You really need an M3 to experience this sound. The M-A has of course a different sound profile compared to the digital M camera." I no longer shoot wide angle (used to do a lot of 21mm and some 28mm and 35mm), just don't like the look anymore. So that is a factor for me. It is in the end a very personal choice and you can't really go wrong with any film Leica. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest )-( Posted July 12, 2017 Share #12 Posted July 12, 2017 Light meters (reflective )without a human brain behind them to adjust for things like colors IMHO are like driverless cars...they may get you to your destination safely, but with a driver the ride is much more enjoyable. If you need a meter, I'd strongly suggest an incident one. I think is about the most pertinent advice. It doesn't matter if the meter is in the camera, in your hand or in your head, unless you expose for the light falling on your subject, results will be mixed. FWIW I prefer to use an incident meter and have non-metered M bodies. I incident meter when I start, put the meter back in my pocket and just take it from there - 'add light' for subject in shadows etc. There's not so many combinations with a film M to become accustomed to - you're only going to be handholding @ 1/1000, /500, /250, /125, /60 (and the rest at a push/subject specific.) If you use an M2 or some such, the direction of the aperture ring and shutter speed dial is going to support you in 'adding/removing light' just by twisting. I recommend 400 speed film, an M something plus a small incident meter (if no meter in the M something.) Light really doesn't change that much, you get used to common combinations and personally, I'm a lot less precious about perfect exposure in every frame with 35mm film (than larger formats) - it's cheap, there are many frames, it'll tend to be a broad variety of subjects/situations, better to get something before the moment is over, than to agonise about perfect exposure. If you got detail in the bits of your negative where you wanted it, you won. Whatever it is/isn't to not have an in-camera spot meter, it definitely isn't a steep learning curve. Exposure is pretty easy with only two variables (i.e.; fixed ISO) and with a handheld meter you have a bit more control with awkward situations. No reason you couldn't have both, try without using the meter and see how you like it, or try an M2/M3/M4 etc.. and sell it if you don't take to it. Have fun whatever you go with, a rangefinder is supposed to be a quick and easy camera, so I wouldn't worry too much until you see your negatives 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted July 12, 2017 Share #13 Posted July 12, 2017 Kup, if you can take a M6 , because sometimes you need a "fast" camera in Street Photos and the "A" option is useful if you don't like missing your picture. Henry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 12, 2017 Share #14 Posted July 12, 2017 Kup, if you can take a M6 , because sometimes you need a "fast" camera in Street Photos and the "A" option is useful if you don't like missing your picture. Henry I think you mean M7, Henry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted July 12, 2017 Share #15 Posted July 12, 2017 I think you mean M7, Henry. Yes apologies Kupe and Ian 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kupepe Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share #16 Posted July 13, 2017 Thanx for all this feedback ... all the lightmeter anxiety is gone. So my mind is set ... chrome M4 or black M5 for a lightmeter (5 is not a mistake) depending on condition and price. M5 besides shape (I got big hands) seems to have pretty good technical specifications and sounds a well thought camera. M6 would be hard for me price-wise i think. Would need to cut budget from the lens. Probably a Summicron 50mm f2 from what i read... 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted July 13, 2017 Share #17 Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) If you talk about form I would prefer an M4 or M3 over an M5, but mostly the viewfinder of the M4 is clearer and it is just more portable. It slides smoothly into the inner pocket of your denim jacket with a Summaron35 or Elmar50 collapsible. In case of doubt you can get your Gossen Digisix2 out of your pants-pocket, just incident light metering, can't go wrong Edited July 13, 2017 by otto.f Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kupepe Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share #18 Posted July 13, 2017 If you talk about form I would prefer an M4 or M3 over an M5, but mostly the viewfinder of the M4 is clearer and it is just more portable. M5 is a cheaper way to get into Leica I think than an M4 though ... Meter, nice construction, cheaper. That is why is under consideration ... As i said its all a matter of timing, price and condition ... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted July 13, 2017 Share #19 Posted July 13, 2017 of course Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
105012 Posted July 13, 2017 Share #20 Posted July 13, 2017 The M5 is a fantastic Leica, the only one with an analogue light meter scale (no flashing LED's), great ergonomics, second only to an M3 (in my world ). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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