Best 200mm for the M10

[james.liam]

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No problem on my 5D1 either. No green hue at all.

It was subtle but apparent when white clouds were in the scene. What amazed me with that lens was the amount of details contained in shadows. I compared it to a Nikkor 180 ED AIS and there was no contest. Some amazing optics.

Russians stood no chance sneaking around in the dark with that glass trained on them.

Edited July 18, 2017 by james.liam

[lct]

It was subtle but apparent when white clouds were in the scene. What amazed me with that lens was the amount of details contained in shadows. I compared it to a Nikkor 180 ED AIS and there was no contest. [...]

 

Well we'll have to agree to differ then. My Nikkor 180/2.8 is one of my favorites as well but neither has color cast in my book. Both great lenses anyway.

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[james.liam]

Well we'll have to agree to differ then. My Nikkor 180/2.8 is one of my favorites as well but neither has color cast in my book. Both great lenses anyway.

Not a matter of agree/disagree. You used a different sensor altogether. I saw the subtle difference when swapping out the different 180s. It is what I observed. That's all.

[lct]

As you like but no green color cast on my Sony A7s either.... 

[james.liam]

As you like but no green color cast on my Sony A7s either....

Good for you.

 

This is starting to sound like the moribund thread of focus shift and the 35 Summicron ASPH; if you don't observe it, doesn't mean it's non-existent. Your n=1 yirelds you a different result.

Let's leave it at that.

Edited July 18, 2017 by james.liam

[lct]

OK but each time i read generalizations like such lens has focus shift, color cast and so on., you can count on me to express my disagreement if mine does not present this defect. 

[jmahto]

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Good for you.

 

This is starting to sound like the moribund thread of focus shift and the 35 Summicron ASPH; if you don't observe it, doesn't mean it's non-existent. Your n=1 yirelds you a different result.

Let's leave it at that.

I read that different years had different color coating (at least three) on the front element. Original coating was designed to give more contrast in black and white film. Maybe this is what you noticed.

 

That is from all knownibg internet.

[james.liam]

OK but each time i read generalizations like such lens has focus shift, color cast and so on., you can count on me to express my disagreement if mine does not present this defect. 

 

 

Knock yourself out. Most of us have n=1 experiences, though a weighted group can shift the consensus. Yours is as valid as anyone else's observations; as I recollect, you did demonstrate that for your sample, at least, there was no demonstrable focus shift on posted images. YMMV, as we all know.

 

I read that different years had different color coating (at least three) on the front element. Original coating was designed to give more contrast in black and white film. Maybe this is what you noticed.

 

That is from all knownibg internet.

 

Perhaps. This subtle finding was first pointed out to me years ago at www.mflenses.com, where an in-depth comparison of the CV vs Leica Telyt was done by a Finnish pro. I went and repeated it myself using the three 180s I owned at the time (CV, Leica Telyt, Nikkor); a very subtle cast was visible only with the Telyt on the D3/D700 sensor. Again, I cannot speak of it on any other sensor as I never had another to compare.

[Steve Spencer]

Knock yourself out. Most of us have n=1 experiences, though a weighted group can shift the consensus. Yours is as valid as anyone else's observations; as I recollect, you did demonstrate that for your sample, at least, there was no demonstrable focus shift on posted images. YMMV, as we all know.

 

 

Perhaps. This subtle finding was first pointed out to me years ago at www.mflenses.com, where an in-depth comparison of the CV vs Leica Telyt was done by a Finnish pro. I went and repeated it myself using the three 180s I owned at the time (CV, Leica Telyt, Nikkor); a very subtle cast was visible only with the Telyt on the D3/D700 sensor. Again, I cannot speak of it on any other sensor as I never had another to compare.

 

James was you APO telyt an early or late one? It sounds from jmahto's comment that different coating were used at different times and that seems like a good candidate for producing a colour cast in some lenses but not in others. I don't see a colour cast on mine either, but that again is just a different n of 1.

[james.liam]

James was you APO telyt an early or late one? It sounds from jmahto's comment that different coating were used at different times and that seems like a good candidate for producing a colour cast in some lenses but not in others. I don't see a colour cast on mine either, but that again is just a different n of 1.

 

 

It took an E60 filter, not the series 7.5 so I guess it was a later one? I have to find the thread with images on that website...

 

But as I mentioned, it was really subtle; the author had a series of shots on an overcast day and the difference was visible. I tried the same thing on a similar day and same finding.

Edited July 18, 2017 by james.liam

[lct]

Knock yourself out. Most of us have n=1 experiences, though a weighted group can shift the consensus. Yours is as valid as anyone else's observations; as I recollect, you did demonstrate that for your sample, at least, there was no demonstrable focus shift on posted images. [...]

 

But why did i have to demonstrate that my lens was normal? Onus of proof on claimants. Nothing personal but people claiming that such or such lens (or camera or whatever) has such or such defect or flaw should be able to provide supporting evidence to their statement.

[Ozytripper]

Yep. I want something longer. I know there's no M option but with the EVF that should be fine. No one makes a new fully mechanical 200 so I'm looking at various used options. I had an f4 80-200R for a bit and stupidly sold it. But that would be, by far, the largest option. And they're hard to find in Oz although I might look OS for one. Maybe I could get another and leave my 90 and 135 at home as well, although I like the RF when it's possible.

 

Ideally, it'll be optically great and as small as possible. Within reason cost isn't an issue. It doesn't need to be super fast as it'll mostly be a lens for travelling. And I'd rather have smaller than faster. If it is a bit faster I don't want anything horrid wide open. Something close to the 135 APO would be ideal. Doesn't have to be a Leica. Just good.

 

At this point my preference is for the modern Leica look over the older classic glass. So something like the 90AA but a 200mm f4 version would be ideal.

 

Gordon

Try the 70-210 Leica zoom. It is almost as good as the 80-200mm but much lighter. 

I had one for years, sold it and then recently bought one back.

[james.liam]

But why did i have to demonstrate that my lens was normal? Onus of proof on claimants. Nothing personal but people claiming that such or such lens (or camera or whatever) has such or such defect or flaw should be able to provide supporting evidence to their statement.

 

 

You don't need to prove a thing; you demonstrated that yours works exceptionally well. (many) Others have had a different experience and elicited the issue.

[nsrimanus]

I recommend that you try the Leica 180 f/2 APO Summicron-R. Recently adapted it on my m240. wow. That thing is a beast with gorgeous IQ. I tried to post an image of the combo, but can't seem to figure out how to do it on this forum.

[Exodies]

Did you click "more reply options" beneath the reply box?

[adan]

On 1970s-80s Leica lens color: NOTHING to do with surveillance or contrast or coatings. EVERYTHING to do with how Leitz (and in particular, Dr. Mandler) thought that color should be rendered on the films of the era. And the glass chosen to do so.

 

Most Leitz lenses from that era, and especially Mandler's designs, are slightly green-cyanish (or more accurately, red-minus) compared to today's Leica lenses. The APO-Telyt fits right in with everything else Leitz was producing at the time.

 

I posted this chart on the "M10 vs. M9 color" thread, but it serves here also. M-mount lenses only, so it doesn't include the APO-Telyt-R per se, but other designs from Mandler from the same era. Note how much lower in red transmission (relative to green) they are, across the board. Then compare to the current Leica "look" (ASPH 21,24, 35s) which run red = green (approximately). M for Mandler designs c. 1980, S for Solms (now Wetzlar) ASPH designs post-1990.

 

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Erwin Puts, from his e-monograph Leica M Lenses: Their Soul and Secrets

 

It is all a matter of taste - but the Mandler "cyan" (specifically in the pre-ASPH 21mm Elmarit and 90mm Summicron pre-APO) is exactly and precisely what made me dump my Contax G gear and switch to Leica 16 years ago. IMHO, the Contax (and current Leica) lenses are just too rosy - because the masses prefer pinkish skin in pictures. The Mandler lenses rendered tanned skin as brown rather than pink/sunburned, and blue skies as Kodachrome cyan rather than the purplish-blue of the Zeiss lenses. SOLD!

 

Those lenses with green about 2X or more the red value (1980-era 21, 28, 50/75 Lux, 90) -  I just love 'em. Must be the Van Gogh in me.... https://media.nga.gov/public/objects/1/0/6/3/8/2/106382-primary-0-440x400.jpg

[jmahto]

Alright. I got my perfect condition 180 APO Telyt (very early years going by serial no). Compared it immediately with Voigtlander 180 APO and also with 400 Telyt 6.8 by doubling using 2X APO. This is what I found on M240.

- better than 180 Lanthar at medium to large distance. It could be due to ease of focusing (with zoom) but consistently I got better results compared to lanthar. It has *no* CA wide open. Even Lanthar has some CA. Lanthar has to go now.

- uniform sharpness across the frame.

- very good performance with 2X APO across the frame. Only in center 400 Telyt is little better in sharpness but it gets fuzzy very fast as you move away from the center. 180 APO with 2xAPO retains the same good performance across the frame.

- finally, I do see some hint of cyan in the sky. But it is so subtle that I can ignore it or get used to it.

 

Signed: A satisfied user.

[nsrimanus]

Thank you @Exodies. 

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[lct]

On 1970s-80s Leica lens color: NOTHING to do with surveillance or contrast or coatings. EVERYTHING to do with how Leitz (and in particular, Dr. Mandler) thought that color should be rendered on the films of the era. And the glass chosen to do so.

Most Leitz lenses from that era, and especially Mandler's designs, are slightly green-cyanish (or more accurately, red-minus) compared to today's Leica lenses. [...]

 

As far as my M lenses are concerned i would say 1960s-1970s have this cyanish rendering. Namely 21/3.4, 35/1.4, 35/2.8, 50/2.8, 50/1.4, 90/4, 135/4. But i find my later Mandler lenses significantly closer to modern color rendering. Namely 35/2 v4, 40/2, 50/1.4 v3, 50/2 v4, late 75/1.4, 90/2 v3, 90/2.8 v2, 135/2.8 v3. And none of my R lenses have the cyanish rendering i must say. Just my feeling though.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[otto.f]

Very true and on a DSLR, hand-held was a breeze. Focusing is perfectly smooth, precise and predictable at all distances, unlike the CV 180. Mated to a dainty M10, I'm trying to visualize how you'd manage without a bracket or tripod. It's bigger than all the others mentioned and will stress the mount unless handled correctly.

You always carry the total unit with the left hand at the point of the R-M adapter, which contains the tripod mount also. From this point you can focus easy and smooth with your left pinky, ring- and middle fingers. Never mount the unit with the body on tripod.

Btw, I don't think the R8 or R9 mounts are basically sturdier than the whole M-history. What about the Novoflex/Visoflex lenses up to 400mm from the past then?