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Best 200mm for the M10


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Yep. I want something longer. I know there's no M option but with the EVF that should be fine. No one makes a new fully mechanical 200 so I'm looking at various used options. I had an f4 80-200R for a bit and stupidly sold it. But that would be, by far, the largest option. And they're hard to find in Oz although I might look OS for one. Maybe I could get another and leave my 90 and 135 at home as well, although I like the RF when it's possible.

 

Ideally, it'll be optically great and as small as possible. Within reason cost isn't an issue. It doesn't need to be super fast as it'll mostly be a lens for travelling. And I'd rather have smaller than faster. If it is a bit faster I don't want anything horrid wide open. Something close to the 135 APO would be ideal. Doesn't have to be a Leica. Just good.

 

At this point my preference is for the modern Leica look over the older classic glass. So something like the 90AA but a 200mm f4 version would be ideal.

 

Gordon

Edited by FlashGordonPhotography
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Leica didn't "do" 200mm primes, except for the quite ancient Visoflex versions. Just 180s or 250/280s, or zooms.

 

180 APO-Telyt-R f/3.4 would be my recommendation. So sharp at f/3.4 that you can just leave it there unless you need more DoF. Moderate weight and size. Medium price - usually substantially less than the later Solms APO-Elmarit, more than the non-APO 180s, somewhere in the region of $US 1250 these days. It's the one designed for U.S. Navy surveillance missions in the 1970's and then released to the public. Defined what "Leica APO" image quality meant, until the 1990s - I think the 180 APO-Summicron (1994) was the first to match/beat it.

 

It's a bit different than the 135 APO-Telyt-M, due to being a Mandler/Canadian design rather than Solms (20+ years older). A bit less contrast, a bit more cyan on color rendering, comparable resolution. Main drawback is the long minimum-focus limit (2.5 meters/8 feet), but for "travelling" that may not be an issue.

 

Alternatively, there is the 180 Elmar-R f/4. Light and compact (about like a 135 f/2.8 , M or R). Not APO performance (shows some color fringing) but quite sharp otherwise. I found the Elmar very hard to focus on a Canon AF-oriented screen (not enough "snap" due to darker f/4 aperture and lower contrast overall), but it may work better with the EVF and focus peaking and such. Definitely inexpensive in some parts of the world ($US 250-500). Focuses down to 1.8 meters (6 feet).

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/180mm_f/3.4_APO-Telyt-R

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/180mm_f/4_Elmar-R

 

Below - crop and FF from 180 APO-Telyt-R on Canon 5D2, @ f/3.4.

 

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In non-Leica world, it is tough to beat Voigtlander 180mm APO Lanthar f/4. Smaller/lighter than 180 3.4 APO and allows close focus. It is best for closer distances than infinity (compared to Leica 180 3.4 APO) and is much better for portraits (I have heard that 180 3.4 APO can focus close enough to have a tight head and shoulder portrait). At infinity 180 3.4 APO rules I guess.

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Yep. I want something longer. I know there's no M option but with the EVF that should be fine. No one makes a new fully mechanical 200 so I'm looking at various used options. I had an f4 80-200R for a bit and stupidly sold it. But that would be, by far, the largest option. And they're hard to find in Oz although I might look OS for one. Maybe I could get another and leave my 90 and 135 at home as well, although I like the RF when it's possible.

 

Ideally, it'll be optically great and as small as possible. Within reason cost isn't an issue. It doesn't need to be super fast as it'll mostly be a lens for travelling. And I'd rather have smaller than faster. If it is a bit faster I don't want anything horrid wide open. Something close to the 135 APO would be ideal. Doesn't have to be a Leica. Just good.

 

At this point my preference is for the modern Leica look over the older classic glass. So something like the 90AA but a 200mm f4 version would be ideal.

 

Gordon

Maybe a bit far, but I actually have two copies of the 80-200 f4 R, one with ROM and one without :). If you are planning any vacation on the north of Europe you can come by and pick it up :D :D, otherwise I would also recommend the excellent (and cheap!) apo 180 f3.4.

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I use(d) regularly the honest Telyt 200f4... but started to be someway annoyed by that couple of attachments for M240 (the LEM/VIS AND the OUBIO... with its tripod appendix...) : so just found an APO Telyt 180 3,4... the R adapter is a better fit also for carrying/storing... and of course nothing to complain on imagery... :)

Edited by luigi bertolotti
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Wouldn't the 135 APO with a bit of crop suffice?

 

Not for me. In situations where I want to travel with an M I'd carry a 90mm and then something in this range.

 

It may be, however that the new TL2, coming on Monday will solve my problems for me. The TL 55-135 is very good indeed and since that new camera seems all but a certainty I may use that as my 200mm solution. I'm still going to investigate the 180 3.4.

 

Thanks all for your input. The 180 APO might suit me well if the TL2 doesn't do what I want.

 

Gordon

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  • 2 weeks later...

Nobody mentioned Apo-Elmarit-R 180/2.8? Old good Apo-Telyt was truly awesome in its days and still absolutely great today, but this one is nearly 25 years younger, and it shows... astonishing performances across the frame at any aperture, at any distance. At least as sharp as the fabled Apo-Summicron 180/2, in a relatively compact package that weights 900gr (rather than 2500gr) and that's a joy to use even hand-held...

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In non-Leica world, it is tough to beat Voigtlander 180mm APO Lanthar f/4. Smaller/lighter than 180 3.4 APO and allows close focus. It is best for closer distances than infinity (compared to Leica 180 3.4 APO) and is much better for portraits (I have heard that 180 3.4 APO can focus close enough to have a tight head and shoulder portrait). At infinity 180 3.4 APO rules I guess.

 

The downside of the CV is that

1] rare as hen's teeth and priced accordingly

2] twitchy focus at near-infinity to infinity

 

A deep breath and focus is off whereas the Leica 180 Telyt APO is optimized for infinity and displays no such issues. Not a portrait lens (nothing special in this role, either resolution or color) and minimum focus is 2.5 meters (!) I also found the colors from the Leica a bit off; the glass imbues a greenish hue to everything and I believe it was by intent to increase contrast using B&W film for its aforementioned role with the US Navy,

 

I doubt 40 years on that many lenses can match it still for objects at distance.

Edited by james.liam
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[...] the Leica 180 Telyt APO is optimized for infinity and displays no such issues. Not a portrait lens (nothing special in this role, either resolution or color) and minimum focus is 2.5 meters (!) I also found the colors from the Leica a bit off; the glass imbues a greenish hue to everything [...]

 

Never seen this green hue so far. May i ask with what body you've used your 180/3.4? 

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The downside of the CV is that

1] rare as hen's teeth and priced accordingly

2] twitchy focus at near-infinity to infinity

 

A deep breath and focus is off whereas the Leica 180 Telyt APO is optimized for infinity and displays no such issues. Not a portrait lens (nothing special in this role, either resolution or color) and minimum focus is 2.5 meters (!) I also found the colors from the Leica a bit off; the glass imbues a greenish hue to everything and I believe it was by intent to increase contrast using B&W film for its aforementioned role with the US Navy,

 

I doubt 40 years on that many lenses can match it still for objects at distance.

 

I can vouch for the #2 that near infinity to infinity focus is tricky in 180 Lanthar. I have lost some good shots (out of focus) just because of this. This is why my lens will be in the market soon. I am switching to 180 APO Telyt. Waiting for the mail. :)

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I can vouch for the #2 that near infinity to infinity focus is tricky in 180 Lanthar. I have lost some good shots (out of focus) just because of this. This is why my lens will be in the market soon. I am switching to 180 APO Telyt. Waiting for the mail. :)

 

 

I find this really interesting. An otherwise excellent lens is sold because of a small handling issue. I feel the same way, all the optical greatness in the world is wasted if it is annoying to use.

I suppose there a two camps, those who like how a lens handles and those who value optical perfection (whatever that means). Ideally it'd be nice it the two were not exclusive of each other, but it seems that often they appear to be.

 

I have nothing to add about the 200mm lens dilemma :(

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I find this really interesting. An otherwise excellent lens is sold because of a small handling issue. I feel the same way, all the optical greatness in the world is wasted if it is annoying to use.

I suppose there a two camps, those who like how a lens handles and those who value optical perfection (whatever that means). Ideally it'd be nice it the two were not exclusive of each other, but it seems that often they appear to be.

 

I have nothing to add about the 200mm lens dilemma :(

 

 

It isn't that simple.

Its a slow lens (ƒ/4), heavy still for hand-held shots on an M body, thus small vibrations and imperceptible motion are exaggerated, blurring the final image; add to it very, very little play of the focus ring at near-infinity, it becomes a less-than-ideal optic for landscape shots. Excellent for near objects, though. Quite stellar, in fact.

Edited by james.liam
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It isn't that simple.

Its a slow lens (ƒ/4), heavy still for hand-held shots on an M body, thus small vibrations and imperceptible motion are exaggerated, blurring the final image; add to it very, very little play of the focus ring at near-infinity, it becomes a less-than-ideal optic for landscape shots. Excellent for near objects, though. Quite stellar, in fact.

Agree. It is really stellar for near objects but.... I will take any 135mm (even my lowly Konica Hexanon) over 180 lanthar for far objects. Greater DOF for 135mm lens makes focusing so much easier. And 135mm cropped to 180 is still 12mp on M240.

 

Believe me, I have done too many test shots verifying what I wrote above.

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2.8/180mm APO Elmarit R; unsurpassed. Unbelievably good results without tripod for such a big lens, very smooth operation, length is fixed because internal focusing

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2.8/180mm APO Elmarit R; unsurpassed. Unbelievably good results without tripod for such a big lens, very smooth operation, length is fixed because internal focusing

Very true and on a DSLR, hand-held was a breeze. Focusing is perfectly smooth, precise and predictable at all distances, unlike the CV 180. Mated to a dainty M10, I'm trying to visualize how you'd manage without a bracket or tripod. It's bigger than all the others mentioned and will stress the mount unless handled correctly.

Edited by james.liam
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