Aperture color problem

[Eoin]

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OK here is what I have so far, it's still WIP. I'll have to work some more on the MC and OTRC segments.

 

Back to this image Peter took of the singer, Peter processed the file through Aperture and Raw developer. I don't know what processing, boost, saturation or other adjustments he may have made to produce this image. I'm also posting the same raw file with the matrix values adjusted for aperture. This file has no processing done on it other than crop, export version as sRGB and sized the same as Peters image. I know saturation is a little lower but I'll work on that over the coming days. Again I'd recommend Safari as the browser since it's colour profile aware.

 

Comments welcome .

 

First image Raw Converter(Peters workflow), Second Aperture with new profile no adjustments.

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[Eoin]

Sorry I forgot, here's a crop of the feathers.

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Hi Eoin, I'm been using C1 with M8 since last Nov and switching between different icc profiles members here shared to get arounf the color issue. Sure, I use IR-filters with ALL my lens. The RD output here really seems spot on, on both skin tones and pink dress. Do I need to play with different icc profile in RD or is it just an automatic conversion?

 

Hi Bill, the silkpix result is great as well. Same question above, does it need to play and test around with different icc profile or is it converted automatically?

 

Cheers

Matthew

[innerimager]

Eoin- Starting to look good! I made no adjustments to saturation or any other color parameter in my RD conversion. Best....Peter

[innerimager]

The RD output here really seems spot on, on both skin tones and pink dress. Do I need to play with different icc profile in RD or is it just an automatic conversion?

Hi Matthew- The RD conversion was done with the default leica M8 profile that comes with the program, and I made no color adjustments. I agree it's quite accurate. RD does provide additional profiles for IR, and you can load the C1 profiles of Jamie and others, with RD providing camera curves that simulate C1 so the profiles work like in C1. Man, it gets complicated! best...Peter

[Eoin]

Some people have been asking me "how to use different profiles for the M8 in Aperture". So the best way is to show you in the following 2 screen shots.

 

Before you do anything you'll need to unlock the raw.plist file by going to it and under Get info, ownership and permissions change the owner from system to your username and you can from read to read & write. Otherwise you won't be able to save the changes we're about to make.

 

1.The first thing you need to do is make a copy of the raw.plist just in case!.

2. I'm assuming your using PlistEditPro.

3. We need to make a copy of the Apple profile, this is easily done by selecting the Leica Camera AG-M8 Digital Camera entry and in the top menu icon click duplicate. This will create an entry called Leica Camera AG-M8 Digital Camera 2. If you then double click this name it will allow you edit the name, let's call it Leica Camera AG-M8 Digital Camera Official so as we know what it is.

4. You can see in the first jpg I have several Offical profiles numbered 1,2,3 and a few others.

5. Now we need to tell the raw.plist when it sees a image made from the M8 what profile to use, this is done by pointing to the desired profile everytime a Leica Camera AG-M8 Digital Camera dng is found. If we go back to the original M8 entry that we used to cerate the duplicate. In the class column we can change this from dictionary to string and then in the Value column you can type in the name of the profile you wish to use. Lets type in Leica Camera AG-M8 Digital Camera Official to get you back to the Apple supplied profile.

6. Save the raw.plist and restart Aperture, Aperture will read the raw.plist on startup and know everytime it comes accross a Leica Camera AG-M8 Digital Camera DNG it should use the Leica Camera AG-M8 Digital Camera Official profile.

7. You can edit this string entry to point to different profiles as you wish but, aperture can only support one live profile at a time for any given camera.

 

As for different profiles themselves, we were originally using the Nikon-D200 in the hack so you could point it there if you are unhappy at the moment. I'm also working on the Matrix of the current profile and I'll post that here when done and perhaps a few others over time.

 

Just be sure to make a copy of the original raw.plist before you start and if you get unsupported image in aperture after doing this it's likely you've made a typing error somewhere, lower case where it should have been upper case and so on.

 

Talk to you soon.

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[jonoslack]

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Phew!

Thank you for this Eoin - I'm back to the D200 profile - at least you no longer have to do the 'double processing' to get the values right. It gives much MUCH better greens than the official profile.

 

I can't wait to see what you manage with the matrix values - you seem to have done a grand job with our Martha!

 

Best wishes from over a wet and windy Irish sea!

[Eoin]

OK now I'm totally confused, I downloaded raw converter and processed peters file through it with no adjustment and I get a different result.

 

1= Peter's original conversion in RC

2= Peter's Original DNG through Aperture with new profile no adjustments.

3= Peter's Original DNG processed by me in RC

Someone tell me what's going on here:confused:, please.

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[wlaidlaw]

OK now I'm totally confused, I downloaded raw converter and processed peters file through it with no adjustment and I get a different result.

 

1= Peter's original conversion in RC

2= Peter's Original DNG through Aperture with new profile no adjustments.

3= Peter's Original DNG processed by me in RC

Someone tell me what's going on here:confused:, please.

 

Eoin,

 

If you are confused - there is zero hope for most of the rest of us.

 

Wilson

[innerimager]

Eoin- I'm not in front of my work station. It's possible I did an exposure adjust in Raw Developer, I just didn't do any color adjustments. I also may have have brightened it in photoshop with a levels adjustment. It appears that the difference is in luminosity/exposure. I'll check when I get back home tonight. best...Peter

[Eoin]

Ah ha!, I'm hearing confessions at 9pm tonight, LOL, there has to have been some adjustment, now that gives me free reign to process within Ap, I'd always have been trying to duplicate no adjustment v's no adjustment.

 

For those of you who'd like to try this amended profile in aperture, please feel free. I've called it Leica Camera AG-M8 Digital Camera Official Matrix Adjust just to keep a fix on where it came form. The cost is free, only proviso is should out paths ever cross mine's a tequila straight up;) .

 

Just cut and paste below a </ditc> entry in the lower window of PlistEditPro and amend the string in the window above like I've shown above post to point to the new profile. Let me know what you think, I like it but then YMMV!.

 

<key>Leica Camera AG-M8 Digital Camera Official Matrix Adjust</key>

<dict>

<key>black</key>

<integer>0</integer>

<key>black1</key>

<integer>0</integer>

<key>black2</key>

<integer>0</integer>

<key>esein</key>

<real>2.0299999999999998</real>

<key>esein_0</key>

<real>0.0</real>

<key>eseth</key>

<real>0.87</real>

<key>eseth_0</key>

<real>0.0</real>

<key>esint</key>

<real>0.75</real>

<key>esint_0</key>

<real>0.0</real>

<key>gresc</key>

<real>2.3999999999999999</real>

<key>gresc_0</key>

<real>0.0</real>

<key>m1</key>

<array>

<real>1.0468999999999999</real>

<real>-0.53139999999999998</real>

<real>0.128</real>

<real>-0.43259999999999998</real>

<real>1.2176</real>

<real>0.2419</real>

<real>-0.088599999999999998</real>

<real>0.24729999999999999</real>

<real>0.71599999999999997</real>

</array>

<key>m2</key>

<array>

<real>0.76749999999999996</real>

<real>-0.2195</real>

<real>-0.030499999999999999</real>

<real>-0.58599999999999997</real>

<real>1.4117999999999999</real>

<real>0.1857</real>

<real>-0.24249999999999999</real>

<real>0.4007</real>

<real>0.65780000000000005</real>

</array>

<key>max</key>

<integer>16383</integer>

<key>mc</key>

<array>

<real>0.92449999999999999</real>

<real>0.18490000000000001</real>

<real>-0.18490000000000001</real>

<real>0.092399999999999996</real>

<real>0.78580000000000005</real>

<real>0.046199999999999998</real>

<real>0.046199999999999998</real>

<real>0.073999999999999996</real>

<real>0.80430000000000001</real>

</array>

<key>otrc</key>

<array>

<real>0.20999999999999999</real>

<real>0.152</real>

<real>2.1739999999999999</real>

<real>0.34000000000000002</real>

<real>1.825</real>

<real>0.748</real>

<real>0.88900000000000001</real>

<real>0.23100000000000001</real>

</array>

<key>scal1</key>

<real>0.38</real>

<key>scal2</key>

<real>0.41999999999999998</real>

<key>spknd</key>

<integer>2</integer>

<key>spt1</key>

<real>49.100000000000001</real>

<key>spt2</key>

<real>10</real>

<key>white</key>

<integer>16383</integer>

</dict>

[innerimager]

sorry for the confusion Eoin. As to the rest of my confessional, well that'll have to wait until we have the tequilla in front of us. Looking forward to trying the profile when I'm back home. Best....Peter

[wlaidlaw]

Eoin,

 

I am probably being dense but the only relevant plist I can find is called RAW decode presets plist - is that the one. When I open it in plist editor, it does not look much like your one above and is only showing:

 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple Computer//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">

<plist version="1.0">

<dict>

<key>M8 Digital Camera</key>

<dict>

<key>userPresets</key>

<array/>

</dict>

</dict>

</plist>

 

This file is in user/library/application support/aperture.

 

Wilson

[jonoslack]

 

For those of you who'd like to try this amended profile in aperture, please feel free. I've called it Leica Camera AG-M8 Digital Camera Official Matrix Adjust just to keep a fix on where it came form. The cost is free, only proviso is should out paths ever cross mine's a tequila straight up;) .

 

Hi Eoin

Wonderful - I'd gone back to the D200 profile, but this seems really good - I've been applying it to a few landscape shots taken today (with reference jpgs) and it's looking really good.

 

if you could bear it, I'd be really grateful if you could email me a text file with the indentations (it looks horrible in plist without them and they disappear here).

jonathan(at)slack(dot)co(dot)uk.

 

What WOULD we do without you!

[Eoin]

I'll do it now Jono.

[Hans Roggen]

Wow Eoin,

Respect!

This looks very promising. Seems like a very nice profile with much better reds and magentas than the profile Apple provided.

Is it just trial and error or do you actually know what you are doing. I mean: how do you come up with these values? Is there anywhere you can read those values after tweaking an image to your liking in Aperture? There are so many 'keys' and so many 'reals'. How on earth do you you know what any of them mean and do?

Say, if i wanted to boost saturation a little in all my M8 images. What would i have to change in the string?

 

Whenever you're in Holland, give me a call and i'll buy you a big big beer.

 

Hans

[fordfanjpn]

Hi Bill, the silkpix result is great as well. Same question above, does it need to play and test around with different icc profile or is it converted automatically?

 

Cheers

Matthew

 

The only things I touched in Silkypix were exposure, dynamic range and WB.

 

Bill

[Eoin]

Hans, I wish it was that easy, it's a black art all these settings keys and values, none of which are documented anywhere by apple. So if anyone has Joe Shorr's email address perhaps they could ask him to give a hint or 50, LOL.

 

The main sections of interest are the M1, M2 which are the camer matrix values. The MC section is the calibration section. The MC is tuned to the output you get in the colours. There is a great little tool called exiftool and if you run it you'll discover the Matrix values also the calibration factors but they are whole numbers such as 100010001. What I discovered was almost all profiles for various cameras in the raw.plist have matrix values exactly the same as reported by exiftool and hence M1 & M2 of the official Apple profile contain the matrix values of the firmware 1.06 & 1.09 M8 dng. Leica changed these values from firmware 1.091 onwards.

 

All I've done is populate M1 & M2 with the current matrix values of the current firmware. I've played around with the MC and ORTC(contrast & lum) sections but they need to be balanced as a change in any one of the segments can mess the colour up elsewhere.

 

It's still WIP till I get some time to work on it more and go shoot something that's fresh in the mind.

 

I still believe the Nikon D200 profile while under saturated and lower contrast gives the most accurate colour, well in my world and my experience anyway. YMMV

[Eoin]

Eoin,

 

I am probably being dense but the only relevant plist I can find is called RAW decode presets plist - is that the one. When I open it in plist editor, it does not look much like your one above and is only showing:

 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple Computer//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">

<plist version="1.0">

<dict>

<key>M8 Digital Camera</key>

<dict>

<key>userPresets</key>

<array/>

</dict>

</dict>

</plist>

 

This file is in user/library/application support/aperture.

 

Wilson

 

 

Sorry Wilson I must have skipped over your post.

 

First thing we need to do is navigate to the raw.plist file. It resides in System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/ Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/

If you click on the Drive icon on your desktop and then click the system folder, then click the library folder then click the frameworks folder and so on following the path above until you get to the resources folder. Once inside the resources folder you should see the raw.plist file.

 

Now we'll make a copy of this file by right clicking or holding the control key and click the file, select copy raw.plist from the popup menu, click anywhere on the desktop and in the top menu bar select edit paste or press command(apple key) and v to paste. You should now have a copy of the raw.plist on your desktop just in case something goes wrong.

 

OK go back up to the resources folder where we found the raw.plist file and we need to right click the file again or ctrl click. in the popup menu you'll see get info, click this. Another menu will open and you'll see near the bottom two triangles one for ownership & permissions and one for details. You'll need to click both triangles to open the sub menus.

 

In the details you'll see Owner which will say system if memory serves me well and a little lock beside it. You need to click the lock and type in your password, the password you used when setting up your mac or the password you used for the administrator account. enter the password if prompted and change the owner to your user name. Then change Access to read and write.

 

Go back up to ownership and permissions and change "you can" to read and write.

 

While we're here if you go up further to "Open with" and click the triangle to reveal the submenu then select the list box and click other, navigate in the window to your applications folder and scroll down till you find the PlistEditPro application select it, click on the always open with and then click Add. This makes PlistEditPro the default application to edit the rew.plist file.

 

OK you can now close the Get Info menu and go back to the raw.plist file in the resources folder. Double click the raw.plist file and it should open up inside PlistEditPro.

 

There are 2 windows inside the PlistEditPro, the upper and lower panes. You'll need to cut and paste the above profile into the lower pane. You'll need to find the end of another profile, you'll know it by </dict> and not<dict>. When you find it click after </dict> press enter to create a new line and paste the profile. Check to see you have not added any blank lines at either end of the profile. Save the raw.plist then go back to the top pane and edit the string to point to the new profile as I've shown in the screen shots.

 

If you have any problems let me know, my computer is on most of the day in work and I check in often.

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[fjmcsu]

Eoin,

Thanks for your work again. I added the new profile as well as the old D200 profile to the mix & all works well. I will be trying different profiles the next few days to see which I like better.It's too bad you were not in Las Vegas,Nevada the weekend before last.After the Roger Waters/Dark Side of the Moon concert fellow concert go-ers & I met @ the Red Square bar & restaurant & although they specialize in Vodka drinks I would have been glad to buy you a TEQUILA of your choice! Sauza Conmemerativo perhaps?

Muchas Gracias