fordfanjpn Posted June 24, 2007 Share #21 Posted June 24, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here's a Silkypix version. Bill hey Bill, pretty good. I have Silkypix, haven't used it on the M8...yet. Give it a try, I think you'll like it. I continue to be impressed with it on the M8. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 24, 2007 Posted June 24, 2007 Hi fordfanjpn, Take a look here Aperture color problem. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
innerimager Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share #22 Posted June 25, 2007 Give it a try, I think you'll like it. I continue to be impressed with it on the M8. Bill Bill- It was/is my favorite for the Kodak 14nx for image quality. Never fell in love with the interface, but it's an option I should look closer at. I really do like Raw Developer, especially it's ability to load both camera profiles and curves. Have a look at it yourself. best...Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordfanjpn Posted June 25, 2007 Share #23 Posted June 25, 2007 The problem with trying to compare converters this way is that we all have different techniques and taste, and thus will produce different results even if we used the same software. However, since my cat woke me up at 3am today, I had some time to kill, so I did conversions in Aperture, Lightroom, C1 and Silkypix. Here they are. Bill Aperture C1 Lightroom Silkypix Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Mondello Posted June 25, 2007 Share #24 Posted June 25, 2007 Fascinating thread! I'll admit I had no idea that these programs handled the same RAW files SO differently. Of course, now I have to go back and re-look at my personal best and see if I;d be better off in another program (I mostly use Aperture). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordfanjpn Posted June 25, 2007 Share #25 Posted June 25, 2007 Bill- It was/is my favorite for the Kodak 14nx for image quality. Never fell in love with the interface, but it's an option I should look closer at. I really do like Raw Developer, especially it's ability to load both camera profiles and curves. Have a look at it yourself. best...Peter Thanks for the suggestion. I have a demo version of RD that I haven't tried yet. I'll fire it up tonight and see how it works for me. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted June 25, 2007 Share #26 Posted June 25, 2007 Fascinating thread! I'll admit I had no idea that these programs handled the same RAW files SO differently. The grim reality is that if you process a raw file (M8 or other) with each of the different raw processors they will all be rendered slightly differently. Which one you deem as 'best' is pretty much a personal decision. Some get you to a final image quicker with the least amount of post processing, others are able to pull out more shadow or highlight information with maybe less noise but perhaps require more post processing to get to the final image. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haroldnaaijer Posted June 25, 2007 Share #27 Posted June 25, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Bill, I use Aperture for a while now, the magenta cast is new for me and I think it is horrible. Also saw it in my pictures since I downloaded new Apple´s rawconversion (Eoin, your conversion creates problems in other colours, in my opinion, hope you can work it out). The silkypix looks best to me, also in shadowdetails monitor speakers (or did you lighten them up, Bill?). I have a free version of Silkypix, but am only able to export as jpeg. Is the paid version able to export to photoshop as psd 16 bit? Thanks, Harold Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordfanjpn Posted June 25, 2007 Share #28 Posted June 25, 2007 Bill, I use Aperture for a while now, the magenta cast is new for me and I think it is horrible. Also saw it in my pictures since I downloaded new Apple´s rawconversion (Eoin, your conversion creates problems in other colours, in my opinion, hope you can work it out). The silkypix looks best to me, also in shadowdetails monitor speakers (or did you lighten them up, Bill?). I have a free version of Silkypix, but am only able to export as jpeg. Is the paid version able to export to photoshop as psd 16 bit? Thanks, Harold I didn't mess with the shadows at all. Pretty much a straight conversion, although I did use the highlight recovery feature (called dynamic range expansion in Silkypix) a bit to save some of the highlights in the pink dress. SP only exports to jpeg and tiff. I export to 16-bit tiff and open the tiff files in Photoshop if I need to do anything else. So far I've been very pleased with the results. The picture I posted is just exported as a tiff and converted to jpeg in Lightroom. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 25, 2007 Share #29 Posted June 25, 2007 Peter, Given that you were at the event and took the original, which of the conversions, Aperture, Aperture (Eoin's profile), C1, CS3 (ACR), Lightroom or Silkypix do you feel is closest to what you remember as the original pink? I am playing with a trial copy of Aperture at present but I don't like the colours quite as much as C1 with Edmund's 1102C-Tuned1 profile. If they could put selectable profiles in Aperture, that would make a good program close to great. Wilson Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share #30 Posted June 25, 2007 Hi Wilson- none of the above! I think the Raw Developer conversion (in my original post) is the closest. After that, I might vote for silkypix......Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted June 25, 2007 Share #31 Posted June 25, 2007 I just shot a Martha and the Vandelas concert, (if you remember them, look for your pension check soon). Using a 35 lux with filter, I was quite pleased with the results using aperture for the first time, (though I must say I find the language and implementation of aperture a bit too cute and too much of a departure from other programs.) This was true in scenes shot in ambient twilight of the crowd, and with white colored stage lights. But, when the stage lights were red, flooding the pink dress, big problems occurred in Aperture. This is despite manual WB set at the time. My D2Hs handled it fine. So I opened the files in Raw Developer, ( I love it) and the problem was greatly diminished. Using different profiles in RD I could simulate the blown saturation of Aperture. By the way, I ended up using the default camera profile rather than the IR filter tuned profiles provided by RD in this example. Can the aperture/color gurus have a look? thanks...Peter Raw Developer Conversion Aperture Conversion No way to correct this using adjustments in aperture. And yes, I cloned out the water bottle in the keeper RD shot. Peter: Here are my Lightroom conversions of your image. I am on a PC and from what I have seen, Lightroom seems to do the color differently than on the Mac version. The first is just a straight conversion with no changes to the slider or colour balance except for my M8 calibrations applied. The second is the same settings, but 15 of fill light. My standard M8 camera calibrations are: Red primary hue +8 Saturation +1 Blue Primary hue -8 saturation 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted June 25, 2007 Share #32 Posted June 25, 2007 For the record, Lightroom has a Camera Calibration tool in the develop settings that does a nice job, esp. at adjusting pinks and greens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_S Posted June 25, 2007 Share #33 Posted June 25, 2007 Paul- Thanks, I like it. I'm swamped with converter choices so will not venture into C1, but it looks good. What profile? best...Peter Peter, I used the "Leica M8 generic UV-IR" profile which came with C1 3.7.7. Corrected WB, exposure and midgrey point a bit. I love C1 for its quality of images, but if you have Raw Developer, you don't need C1, I think. I wished Aperture would reach that level of quality yet (it has many other highlights). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordfanjpn Posted June 25, 2007 Share #34 Posted June 25, 2007 Since so many people seem so happy with Raw Developer, I downloaded the demo version and gave it a try. I have to say that I am very impressed so far. Not only does it do an excellent job of converting the M8 dng files, with lots of control, but it's also very fast. The last thing I wanted to do was buy another raw conversion program, but I'm seriously considering buying Raw Developer. Thanks to everyone who recommended it. Bill This was done with the demo version of RD so it is watermarked. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted June 25, 2007 Share #35 Posted June 25, 2007 The problem I see with aperture is the colour matrix values, and surprise surprise guess what, Apple have only gone and given us the support for the M8 with firmware 1.06 installed. Leica changed the colour matrix values in the DNG around 1.091. I said the matrix values did not match earlier in another thread and I was surprised because all "profiles" in the raw.plist have M1 & M2 values that match exactly the matrix1 and matrix2 values of the given raw file if queried with exiftool. Out of curiosity tonight I ran a v1.06 firmware DNG through exiftool and m1 & m2 match exactly matrix1 & matrix2. So sorry guys n gals, the current official profile is about as accurate as the hacked one we were using before. I'll let you know more as I find out Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share #36 Posted June 25, 2007 Pardon me Mr. Jobs - how about hiring Eoin? I'll bet he can make Aperture truly sing for everyone, not just us M8 users. best....Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted June 25, 2007 Share #37 Posted June 25, 2007 Eoin, Have you seen any documentation on how to create our own camera profiles as included in the raw.plist file? Presumably there is a documented process that the Apple folks go through to build these profiles. I've trawled through the Apple Developer site and docs and I couldn't find anything (not a definitive statement that it isn't there btw, just that I couldn't find it). Do you really think that Apple created the profile using an early firmware release or original image specification information from Leica? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmsr Posted June 25, 2007 Share #38 Posted June 25, 2007 1.06 NOOOOOO!!!!!!! #$$@%&@&*#%$$%&$*%^@( That makes since now for some of the color difference that I have seen trying to use it. Eoin - Thank you for doing all this with Aperture. It would be cool if you come up with another hack that changes the color balance, but let's us use Aperture as it is now supported. (I.E.: No DNG convertor prior to import.) Best, Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted June 25, 2007 Share #39 Posted June 25, 2007 Graham, it looks like the values for the raw.plist entry are derived from a 1.06fw DNG. This is surprising since the excuse apple gave at the time was they were waiting for Leica to settle down on the firmware values so as they would not have to re-do the profile. There is actually no document relating to the values in the raw.plist, apple have not published any info regarding the settings or what they relate to. I don't think apple will divulge this info, least of all to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 25, 2007 Share #40 Posted June 25, 2007 Graham, it looks like the values for the raw.plist entry are derived from a 1.06fw DNG. This is surprising since the excuse apple gave at the time was they were waiting for Leica to settle down on the firmware values so as they would not have to re-do the profile. There is actually no document relating to the values in the raw.plist, apple have not published any info regarding the settings or what they relate to. I don't think apple will divulge this info, least of all to me. Thanks for the splendid detective work Eoin. It means I am only out the £15 for the Aperture book I have ordered from Amazon rather than £200+ for the full program when my 30 day trial finishes. Maybe they will get it right in time for Leopard. I think I for one will be waiting and sticking with C1LE for the time being. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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