HSS for Leica SL?

[fenixv8]

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These LEDS seem pretty cool. https://www.rotolight.com/product/anova-pro-2/

 

THe fellow that promotes them uses a Leica 007

[kimo]

Watching a new video on fashion shooting on the Leica Website I was surprised to see an SL firing Rotolight LED-strobes in the video.

I contacted Leica, and they where very helpful. The answer is that they indeed used Rotolights with the Elinchrome ELSP-HS and they also fired in HSS.

I will try to verify with my SL at a local Rotolight dealer. Too good to be true 😄 

The link to the video. The shooting is towards the end of it.
http://de.leica-camera.com/Stores-Dealers/Point-of-Experience/Point-of-Experience/fashion?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PoEx_Fashion#Video

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[caissa]

In the elinchrom compatibility pages I found no hint whatever about use with Leica cameras.

Can’t you make your Leica contacts publish a small summary of what equipment they used with which settings. Maybe in the forum or on a website or maybe just a plain letter ?

I wonder if they really used a sky port with the SL and if yes, for which brand ... 

I only heard that older manual sky port transmitters can be used with Leica cameras. (only in manual mode)

Edited January 26, 2019 by caissa

[huwge]

*

Edited April 10, 2019 by huwge

[huwge]

On 1/25/2019 at 7:17 PM, kimo said:

Watching a new video on fashion shooting on the Leica Website I was surprised to see an SL firing Rotolight LED-strobes in the video.

I contacted Leica, and they where very helpful. The answer is that they indeed used Rotolights with the Elinchrome ELSP-HS and they also fired in HSS.

I will try to verify with my SL at a local Rotolight dealer. Too good to be true 😄 

 

Did you have any success?

Thx

[antigallican]

On 1/26/2019 at 4:40 AM, caissa said:

In the elinchrom compatibility pages I found no hint whatever about use with Leica cameras.

Can’t you make your Leica contacts publish a small summary of what equipment they used with which settings. Maybe in the forum or on a website or maybe just a plain letter ?

I wonder if they really used a sky port with the SL and if yes, for which brand ... 

I only heard that older manual sky port transmitters can be used with Leica cameras. (only in manual mode)

I have Elinchrom Skyport both the modern and the old models (for Nikon) which I use with my SL. Unfortunately neither does HSS with the Leica and the older one doesn't do HSS at all. The SF 40 does provide HSS of course, but though I have one and it's a great unit it's just fill flash really. The closest I get to real synchro sunlight is a pair of Nissins fired off camera with a Leica Q, any speed up to 2000th, or indeed ditto with the Elinchroms but they are a bit unwieldy for carrying around the street. Of course they can be fired as slaves by the SF 40, but they don't work HSS so that only works for the Q again. I do think it's a bit poor that Leica haven't sorted this flash situation out after all this time. I wonder if the new Panasonic does better and which system would it trigger.

Edited April 11, 2019 by antigallican

[sillbeers15]

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I really like the soft effect of Rotolight that is compact on the go as no bulky light modifiers are required. Pity it does not work with Leica SL.

The only non published flash and transmitter combo that works with Leica SL & M is Leica SF C1 & the GN80/165W Nissin MG10. I know as I own and use it in combo with 2 units of SF60 as my OCF kit. The SF60 tends to be just too underpowered outdoors and overheats in no time. The MG10 is much better.

[antigallican]

This fact (controlling the Nissin MG10) makes me wonder if the SFC1 will control Nissin di700s. If so an MG10 (GN80) and my pair of di700s (GN48 each) would be a rather nice combo

Edited April 14, 2019 by antigallican
clarity

[sillbeers15]

8 hours ago, antigallican said:

This fact (controlling the Nissin MG10) makes me wonder if the SFC1 will control Nissin di700s. If so an MG10 (GN80) and my pair of di700s (GN48 each) would be a rather nice combo

I had to download the latest MG10v5 firmware myself (available from Nissin website) after my MG10 arrived from Nissin online shop in Hong Kong in order for Leica SFC1 Commander to work with Nissin MG10. 

Previously I’ve tried to pair SFC1 with Nissin’s i60, it was paired successfully. I could fire the i60 from the SFC1’s test button but no success in triggering the flash from my Leica SL. I contacted Nissin about matter and the reply I had received was the older flashes were loaded with firmware that do not recognise Leica protocol. Not sure if Nissin dealers have the capacity or access to upload latest firmware onto existing customer’s flash as only the MG10 has a micro SD card slot for diy firmware updates.

[sillbeers15]

I’ve found a way to enhance more fire power with flash / strobe set on manual mode @ full power to supliment more illumination when the Leica flashes do not have enough juicy to overpower the sun on outdoor daylight shoot.

Other than any flash / strobe set to full power on manual. It can only be triggered optically by another Leica flash either mounted to Leica camera hot shoe or via SFC1 wireless trigger. For some reason, firing the manual flash using wireless trigger cannot eliminate the partial flash illumination encountered similar to using shutter speeds higher than camera flash sync speed. Only optical trigger works.

Now a Leica flash or Leica wireless trigger is also required to fool the camera into HSS mode ( only TTL and no Manual mode as stupidly Leica wireless HSS cannot work in Manual mode).

Edited April 15, 2019 by sillbeers15

[antigallican]

7 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

I’ve found a way to enhance more fire power with flash / strobe set on manual mode @ full power to supliment more illumination when the Leica flashes do not have enough juicy to overpower the sun on outdoor daylight shoot.

Other than any flash / strobe set to full power on manual. It can only be triggered optically by another Leica flash either mounted to Leica camera hot shoe or via SFC1 wireless trigger. For some reason, firing the manual flash using wireless trigger cannot eliminate the partial flash illumination encountered similar to using shutter speeds higher than camera flash sync speed. Only optical trigger works.

Now a Leica flash or Leica wireless trigger is also required to fool the camera into HSS mode ( only TTL and no Manual mode as stupidly Leica wireless HSS cannot work in Manual mode).

Thanks very much for replies.

Yes I fire off camera Nissins as slaves with the SF 40. It doesn't work every time for some reason, but firing the SL with the Leica flash on top and my Nissin Di700s as optical slaves will work *most* times right up to 8000th. It helps for some reason if there's a gap between shutter presses (say, 5-10 seconds) and it varies from Nissin Di700 to Di700. I established this by putting them on stands in front of me and firing at them, so the flashes are in the frame of shot. One fires most times, one fires sometimes.  I have absolutely no idea why it works sometimes and not others. They both work perfectly in manual at 250th or less, using the Nissin (Nikon) Air controller on top of the camera.

SL with 24-90 and a Nissin Di700 in the hot shoe is quite a handfull - not in a good way.

Edited April 15, 2019 by antigallican
clarity

[albireo_double]

On 1/26/2019 at 5:40 AM, caissa said:

In the elinchrom compatibility pages I found no hint whatever about use with Leica cameras.

Can’t you make your Leica contacts publish a small summary of what equipment they used with which settings. Maybe in the forum or on a website or maybe just a plain letter ?

I wonder if they really used a sky port with the SL and if yes, for which brand ... 

I only heard that older manual sky port transmitters can be used with Leica cameras. (only in manual mode)

I asked Leica about this recently and they first said Elinchrom Skyport but did not know which version. They had to ask the photog and his answer apparently was that he'd used the Canon version -- which made no sense to me at first. So, I experimented.  And figured out that  to fire the Rotolights, you can probably use ANY version of the Skyport HS trigger, AS LONG AS you disable all contacts other than the center pin (if you don't, you will get various nasty issues with the camera, such as the EVF blinking etc.). Best way to disable the other pins is to use one of those little "cubes" that insert in the hotshoe and feature another hotshoe on the top. Put the "cube" in the Leica's hotshoe, insert the Elinchrom trigger into the hotshoe on the top of the "cube" and you are good to go. Works fine like this with my Eli trigger for Nikon..... I suspect the photog in the Leica video did something like this (or maybe just taped over the other pins) but the poor soul on the end of the Leica support email (whose name I will not mention here), as usual has no clue.

[sillbeers15]

6 hours ago, albireo_double said:

I asked Leica about this recently and they first said Elinchrom Skyport but did not know which version. They had to ask the photog and his answer apparently was that he'd used the Canon version -- which made no sense to me at first. So, I experimented.  And figured out that  to fire the Rotolights, you can probably use ANY version of the Skyport HS trigger, AS LONG AS you disable all contacts other than the center pin (if you don't, you will get various nasty issues with the camera, such as the EVF blinking etc.). Best way to disable the other pins is to use one of those little "cubes" that insert in the hotshoe and feature another hotshoe on the top. Put the "cube" in the Leica's hotshoe, insert the Elinchrom trigger into the hotshoe on the top of the "cube" and you are good to go. Works fine like this with my Eli trigger for Nikon..... I suspect the photog in the Leica video did something like this (or maybe just taped over the other pins) but the poor soul on the end of the Leica support email (whose name I will not mention here), as usual has no clue.

So it is only a flash sync trigger to set off the rotolight on manual and no HSS.

[sillbeers15]

16 hours ago, antigallican said:

Thanks very much for replies.

Yes I fire off camera Nissins as slaves with the SF 40. It doesn't work every time for some reason, but firing the SL with the Leica flash on top and my Nissin Di700s as optical slaves will work *most* times right up to 8000th. It helps for some reason if there's a gap between shutter presses (say, 5-10 seconds) and it varies from Nissin Di700 to Di700. I established this by putting them on stands in front of me and firing at them, so the flashes are in the frame of shot. One fires most times, one fires sometimes.  I have absolutely no idea why it works sometimes and not others. They both work perfectly in manual at 250th or less, using the Nissin (Nikon) Air controller on top of the camera.

SL with 24-90 and a Nissin Di700 in the hot shoe is quite a handfull - not in a good way.

There can be a more reliable way. Use SFC1 to trigger a SF60 bundled together with yr manual flashes. Chances are optical slave sensor needs a clear line of sight to trigger.

[albireo_double]

12 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

There can be a more reliable way. Use SFC1 to trigger a SF60 bundled together with yr manual flashes. Chances are optical slave sensor needs a clear line of sight to trigger.

I am not going to buy the silly Leica trigger and flash, just to pair another system through the slave function. One, the SF60 is unlikely to recharge nearly as fast as any decent strobe unit and second, I bet this combination would never achieve reliable HSS. I have written to Leica, Profoto and Elinchrom and they all "continuously improve their products but do not know if and when blah, blah, blah, blah...". And Priolite is out of stock on the one combination that I would consider, i.e. the 1000WS pack and head combo. I guess the only way is to kidnap a Profoto or Elinchrom engineer and keep them in a dungeon on bread and water until they write  the firmware code to turn one of their Nikon triggers (which have the same pin layout as Leica) into a Leica trigger. Or maybe chain ourselves to a suitable door handle in Wetzlar and go on a hunger strike. 

[albireo_double]

On 12/6/2017 at 6:37 PM, fenixv8 said:

These LEDS seem pretty cool. https://www.rotolight.com/product/anova-pro-2/

Cool but still not that much power. You do need to hike the ISO to say 800-1600 to use them at any reasonable f-stop / distance. The flash function helps to get a stop or two higher output.

[sillbeers15]

10 hours ago, albireo_double said:

I am not going to buy the silly Leica trigger and flash, just to pair another system through the slave function. One, the SF60 is unlikely to recharge nearly as fast as any decent strobe unit and second, I bet this combination would never achieve reliable HSS. I have written to Leica, Profoto and Elinchrom and they all "continuously improve their products but do not know if and when blah, blah, blah, blah...". And Priolite is out of stock on the one combination that I would consider, i.e. the 1000WS pack and head combo. I guess the only way is to kidnap a Profoto or Elinchrom engineer and keep them in a dungeon on bread and water until they write  the firmware code to turn one of their Nikon triggers (which have the same pin layout as Leica) into a Leica trigger. Or maybe chain ourselves to a suitable door handle in Wetzlar and go on a hunger strike. 

It is good that you can talk Leica & Profoto to give you what you want. For me, I have given up. Good luck!

[antigallican]

On 4/16/2019 at 5:13 AM, sillbeers15 said:

There can be a more reliable way. Use SFC1 to trigger a SF60 bundled together with yr manual flashes. Chances are optical slave sensor needs a clear line of sight to trigger.

Probably you are right. The cheap alternative is to use a three or four stop ND to synchronise sunlight at under a 250th, fill flash. This would mean giving up any idea of HSS. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by antigallican
mistake in quoting

[antigallican]

On 4/15/2019 at 10:23 PM, albireo_double said:

I asked Leica about this recently and they first said Elinchrom Skyport but did not know which version. They had to ask the photog and his answer apparently was that he'd used the Canon version -- which made no sense to me at first. So, I experimented.  And figured out that  to fire the Rotolights, you can probably use ANY version of the Skyport HS trigger, AS LONG AS you disable all contacts other than the center pin (if you don't, you will get various nasty issues with the camera, such as the EVF blinking etc.). Best way to disable the other pins is to use one of those little "cubes" that insert in the hotshoe and feature another hotshoe on the top. Put the "cube" in the Leica's hotshoe, insert the Elinchrom trigger into the hotshoe on the top of the "cube" and you are good to go. Works fine like this with my Eli trigger for Nikon..... I suspect the photog in the Leica video did something like this (or maybe just taped over the other pins) but the poor soul on the end of the Leica support email (whose name I will not mention here), as usual has no clue.

I wonder if Rotolight might be exploiting the fact that Elinchrom doesn't have the strobe type HSS but instead has what they call HS - it times the full part of the light pulse's bell curve with the shutter .  

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[sillbeers15]

4 hours ago, antigallican said:

Probably you are right. The cheap alternative is to use a three or four stop ND to synchronise sunlight at under a 250th, fill flash. This would mean giving up any idea of HSS. 

It is actually not favourable to go onto HSS as the light intensity drops drastically. However I look upon having it as an insurance to be able not to miss the shot when The situation calls for.