lct Posted July 20, 2017 Share #41 Posted July 20, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) [...] I guess what I'm asking is the magic of the 50/APO really that magical? Not sure what magical means exactly but a magical lens should "imprint it's stamp" to borrow the excellent word above i guess . Seriously, I can add very little to the pics you may wish to download here. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 Hi lct, Take a look here 50 APO - what do you see as the difference?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Exodies Posted July 20, 2017 Share #42 Posted July 20, 2017 In the sense that it's impossible to put into words, yes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M10Alpine Posted July 20, 2017 Share #43 Posted July 20, 2017 Not sure what magical means exactly but a magical lens should "imprint it's stamp" to borrow the excellent word above i guess . Seriously, I can add very little to the pics you may wish to download here. I did look at them. Thanks for posting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted July 20, 2017 Share #44 Posted July 20, 2017 Thats pretty much nails it. I agree I don't need the APO likewise I don't need the 21LUX the 21/3.4 asph would make more sense. I guess what I'm asking is the magic of the 50/APO really that magical? You want some of that ThreeDeeNess, dontcha? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted July 20, 2017 Share #45 Posted July 20, 2017 The difference? If you need or prefer to shoot wide-open, there is nothing like it. Bokeh is smooth but without much character or 'signature', making the subject, resolved to an extraordinarily high level and with equally impressive color fidelity, stand out all the more. Someone suggested in a different thread that the contrast increases at the point/plane of focus and is rendered lower elsewhere in the frame; if true, this would further add to the "3D" effect talked about. On a Monochrome, the true resolving potential of the sensor is realized. f/4? f/5.6? I couldn't tell it apart from the 50 Summilux. Or the Summicron 50 V5, for that matter. Monochrom excepted. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocean2059 Posted July 20, 2017 Share #46 Posted July 20, 2017 I agree that the APO-Summicron-M 50 really sings with Monochrom body. At low light and shooting with open aperture, the advantage of APO is very clear. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share #47 Posted July 20, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Someone suggested in a different thread that the contrast increases at the point/plane of focus and is rendered lower elsewhere in the frame; if true, this would further add to the "3D" effect talked about. There are a few interviews on the internet with Peter Karbe that suggests that is indeed one of the lens' designs. Whatever he's done, it's really good in creating this 3D effect. I see a clear difference in this regard between my 50 APO and other M lenses, and I really like it. I also agree that the APO's advantage is more visible with the Monochrom. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted July 20, 2017 Share #48 Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) I agree that the APO-Summicron-M 50 really sings with Monochrom body. At low light and shooting with open aperture, the advantage of APO is very clear. Except that "APO" correction is for color, only. Therefore making "the advantage of APO" exactly Zero, in real life, on a monochrom. The whole point of a APO lens is color phorography. But yeah, spread yet another leica myth around. That's why the internet exists. -- Edited typos Edited July 20, 2017 by NB23 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 20, 2017 Share #49 Posted July 20, 2017 Except that "APO" correction is for color, only. Therefore making "the advantage of APO" exactly Zero, in real life, on a monochrom. The whole point of a APO lens is color phorography. But yeah, spread yet another leica myth around. That's why the internet exists. -- Edited typos There you go misinforming the readers again. APO has as much to do with mono as well as color. http://stason.org/TULARC/recreation/photography/lenses-faq/31-What-do-APO-and-Apochromatic-mean.html 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted July 21, 2017 Share #50 Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) Except that "APO" correction is for color, only. Therefore making "the advantage of APO" exactly Zero, in real life, on a monochrom. The whole point of a APO lens is color phorography. But yeah, spread yet another leica myth around. That's why the internet exists. -- Edited typos Hello NB23, Actually, apochromatic correction is just as important in black & white photography as it is in color photography. A print that appears as tones of gray is created from an image made of light of various colors striking the film/sensor surface. The more correctly the lens transmits these rays of different colors to that film/sensor surface, the more accurately they will create a colored image of the original subject on that film/sensor surface. Which will be displayed as a black & white image. There is NOT a separate set of black & white rays of light travelling thru the lens creating a black & white image. Best Regards, Michael Edited July 21, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted July 21, 2017 Share #51 Posted July 21, 2017 Yeah ok... but not for me, thank you. APO is for color. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted July 21, 2017 Share #52 Posted July 21, 2017 Yeah ok... but not for me, thank you. APO is for color. Hello Again NB23, Personally, I also prefer photographing in color. Best Regards, Michael 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblutter Posted July 21, 2017 Share #53 Posted July 21, 2017 Has anyone compared the APO to Summi non-APO after applying a bit of PS magic? When I read 'pop', I think post and side by side comparison in a decent sized print like 17x22". I'm printing B&W pretty much exclusively these days, all shot with M240 & Summi 50 ver 4 or Summi 35 ASPH printed with Piezography inks on good paper. They all benefit from a bit of pop via curves and curve masking. Is there a visible 3x improvement equal to the price difference? If so, I'll start saving up - tho I'm skeptical there can be that much difference. Samples anyone? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 21, 2017 Share #54 Posted July 21, 2017 Summi? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsmphoto Posted July 21, 2017 Share #55 Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) Has anyone compared the APO to Summi non-APO after applying a bit of PS magic? When I read 'pop', I think post and side by side comparison in a decent sized print like 17x22". I'm printing B&W pretty much exclusively these days, all shot with M240 & Summi 50 ver 4 or Summi 35 ASPH printed with Piezography inks on good paper. They all benefit from a bit of pop via curves and curve masking. Is there a visible 3x improvement equal to the price difference? If so, I'll start saving up - tho I'm skeptical there can be that much difference. Samples anyone? Thanks! How do you quantify a 3x improvement? We're talking aesthetics here, right? I would suggest finding a way to test the lens for yourself. Edited July 21, 2017 by rsmphoto Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 21, 2017 Share #56 Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) Is there a visible 3x improvement equal to the price difference? If so, I'll start saving up - tho I'm skeptical there can be that much difference. Keep your money then or you will be disappointed. Your criteria are too low for that with respect. If your question was is there a significant improvement out of a 42MP camera i would say perhaps although i did not do the test but out of a modest 24MP's the least one millimeter move of a slider in C1 will do much more for 3D rendering i must say. Unless you expect 3D in the corners at f/2 that is. FWIW. Edited July 21, 2017 by lct Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share #57 Posted July 21, 2017 Keep your money then or you will be disappointed. Your criteria are too low for that with respect. If your question was is there a significant improvement out of a 42MP camera i would say perhaps although i did not do the test but out of a modest 24MP's the least one millimeter move of a slider in C1 will do much more for 3D rendering i must say. Unless you expect 3D in the corners at f/2 that is. FWIW. I'd agree with that, especially given the question related to roughly 20" wide prints, which aren't especially massive. At large print sizes you'll see a difference (especially 3D ness given the APO's very sharp roll off in contrast from the perfectly in focus plane) and as before, the Monochrom will especially show the benefits due to its inherent higher resolution due to no colour filter etc that improves resolution (and lowers artefacts) compared to the low resolution 24mp colour cameras. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted July 22, 2017 Share #58 Posted July 22, 2017 The Monochrom's pixels, purely measuring luminance, benefits from APO in that the colors converge on the same plain and the resulting accutance improvement further enhances the impression of "sharpness". 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted July 22, 2017 Share #59 Posted July 22, 2017 Addendum: by 'colors' I m an different wavelengths of light converging upon the same plane of focus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted July 22, 2017 Share #60 Posted July 22, 2017 That's only a by-product for BW photography. The whole point of apo is color photography. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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