Jared Posted July 3, 2017 Share #21 Posted July 3, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sure, here are both shots again. Sorry, the framing is a little different because I didn't setup the tripod in the exact same spot. As a result, both of these 100% crops a somewhat smaller image. Both images are at f/4 (closed two stops for the 50mm Summicron APO and about half a stop for the 24-90 Vario Elmar). In both cases the camera was tripod mounted. I used the iPhone remote release this time so that there could be no question of damping times with the larger, heavier 24-90. OIS was off on the SL. White balance was set manually for each. Each was shot at base ISO (50 on the SL/100 on the M10). Sharpening was zeroed out in each. Here is the 50mm APO... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273981-50-apo-what-do-you-see-as-the-difference/?do=findComment&comment=3307963'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 3, 2017 Posted July 3, 2017 Hi Jared, Take a look here 50 APO - what do you see as the difference?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jared Posted July 3, 2017 Share #22 Posted July 3, 2017 And here is the 24-90... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273981-50-apo-what-do-you-see-as-the-difference/?do=findComment&comment=3307964'>More sharing options...
Jared Posted July 3, 2017 Share #23 Posted July 3, 2017 And a bonus frame... My sample of the 24-90 is stronger at 35mm than it is at 50mm. Here is a shot taken at 35mm. Results are right in between the previous two in terms of acutance. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273981-50-apo-what-do-you-see-as-the-difference/?do=findComment&comment=3307965'>More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted July 7, 2017 Share #24 Posted July 7, 2017 50APO is my favorite M lens. I prefered the 50 Summicron over the 50 Summilux asph in regards of color and overall rendering, and I slightly prefer the APO over the "standard" Summicron. The images show a clariry with very nice renditions, vivid color, and a very good bokeh. Its not so much that images from the standard Summicron would stay much behind in direct comparisons, but I very often get images from the APO which make me wow. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRIago Posted July 7, 2017 Share #25 Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) I have never used the APO. But I have the V5 and the Rigid. Love them both. Compared the Rigid against Asph and Elmar-M at one point and they were pretty bad by comparison. I mean the Asph is ok but for that much money? No. It's huge, not a Rangefinder lens for my needs. Also, it has a lot of known problems too when it comes to build quality, focusing and so on. If I have to pick one and one only, that would have to be the Rigid. Like, big time. Edited July 7, 2017 by TRIago 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share #26 Posted July 16, 2017 Thanks to all of you for your comments, they were useful. Well, i pulled the trigger and got a very very clean 50mm APO. I've returned from holiday after using it for the first week. Here are my initial observations: - centre resolution is not obviously different between the v5 and APO at around f5.6. My shots were all handheld though .... if there were any resolution benefits from the APO it's likely easy to through them away due to less-than-perfect technique. - i REALLY like the rendering of the 50 APO. It's high resolution, but very gentle at the same time ....it's much gentler than (say) my 35mm f2 Summicron or 35mm f1.4 Lux, both of which feel more edgy / harsh / "digital". - probably the biggest difference for me compared to any M lens i've tried is the tonal depth .....the APO has a very strong 3D rendering. Regardless of resolution and everything else, this 3D impact is what stands out for me. I absolutely love it. - the resolution AND gentleness AND 3D clarity of a 50mm APO + M240 starts to remind me, for the first time, of an S lens on a S007 ....obviously a lower rez version and not as perfect as a bigger sensor S, but much closer than i've got with my previous M lens experience. Perhaps this not surprising, given the M 50mm APO and S lenses are among the latest and greatest "ground-up" lenses that are designed specifically in the era of digital sensors? I'd guess the pending SL Summicrons could take this fine tuning of "matching lens to digital sensor" even further? - the 50 APO does, indeed, have amazing edge-to-edge sharpness, far better than my v5 Summicron (my v5 Summi could be a bad copy though) - as discussed by lct, the 50 APO has very strong accutance. I've found it needs very little sharpening in post compared to my v5 Summi. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted July 16, 2017 Share #27 Posted July 16, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Test shot when buying mine at Aperture (London) f2 or 2.8, Leica M262, showing sharpness on lamp-post and background blur at this setting. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273981-50-apo-what-do-you-see-as-the-difference/?do=findComment&comment=3317134'>More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted July 18, 2017 Share #28 Posted July 18, 2017 Wide open better. Clarity of image any stop. V5 flare is gone. Too bad so costly Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 18, 2017 Share #29 Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Jared, with respect I question your tests. Do you really shoot landscapes a 3' distance, or whatever it was for your framed painting photo? Most landscapes are shot with focus closer to infinity. That's where a 50mm is a 50mm and coverage, aberrations are different. Tripod images are usually made at modest apertures which help flatten the differences. (microview take note) I've found it needs very little sharpening in post compared to my v5 Summi. Summi-What? (I know, but I have a goofy attitude about nicknaming lenses.) Edited July 18, 2017 by pico 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShivaYash Posted July 18, 2017 Share #30 Posted July 18, 2017 What body are you using? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted July 18, 2017 Share #31 Posted July 18, 2017 Jared, with respect I question your tests. Do you really shoot landscapes a 3' distance, or whatever it was for your framed painting photo? Most landscapes are shot with focus closer to infinity. That's where a 50mm is a 50mm and coverage, aberrations are different. Tripod images are usually made at modest apertures which help flatten the differences. (microview take note) Summi-What? (I know, but I have a goofy attitude about nicknaming lenses.) Certainly not suggesting that a flat subject like a painting on a wall (at about 2m as it happens) is a typical subject for a 50mm lens or any other focal length of lens. I was just trying to illustrate what I see as the defining characteristic of the 50mm APO, it's acutance. I freely acknowledge the fact that the situation was chosen to make the difference as dramatic as possible, i.e., choosing an aperture where the APO is near its best performance and the 24-90 is near its worst, comparing a fixed focal length lens to a zoom, etc.. There are plenty of situations where the 24-90 would match or even exceed the 50 APO. For example, shoot them both at f/8 or f/11 and things get much closer. Shoot them both hand held and the OIS in the zoom will often give it an advantage. While I can imagine shooting the 50mm tripod mounted at f/4 since the performance of the lens is very strong at that aperture, I doubt I would ever shoot the 24-90 at that aperture when tripod mounted. I'd stop it down. Only exception I can think of would be if it were a windy day and I was worried about motion blur, but even then I'd probably boost the ISO a touch and try to get to f/5.6 or so on the Vario. So, no, it's not a realistic photograph, but it does, I believe, show the excellent acutance of the 50mm APO. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 19, 2017 Share #32 Posted July 19, 2017 I will lend you my Jupiter 50/2 to compare acutance with your zoom lens . Just kidding but i would pick a sharper 50 to compete with the 50/2 apo to be honest. Been there with the M 50/1.4 asph already but i have no experience with the L 50/1.4 asph personally. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted July 19, 2017 Share #33 Posted July 19, 2017 The Summi's ThreeDeeNees is Flabbergasting. Viva the Summi! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted July 19, 2017 Share #34 Posted July 19, 2017 The 24-90 does exactly what I would want and expect from it--no complaints at all. It is well made, more flare resistant than any of my 'M' lenses, has OIS, focuses accurately, is weather sealed on the SL body, and produces excellent results at all focal lengths that, if you use good technique, hold up well to enlargement. If I could change anything on that lens it would be size and weight. It strikes me as a bit large and heavy given the fact that it doesn't have a fixed f/2.8 aperture. That's about it. Closed down a stop or two it is every bit the equal optically of most of my 'M' primes. I hope nobody is looking at my samples and thinking, "Wow, the 24-90 isn't a very good lens." It's just that the 50mm APO is exceptional in a couple areas, one of them being acutance. The edge sharpness at all apertures is fantastic on the 50 APO. Negatives for the 50 APO? Frankly, 50mm is not one of my favorite focal lengths. I don't do a lot of street shooting--more landscape work, informal portraits, some event photography, vacation pictures, etc.. I don't "see" well at 50mm. I tend to do better at 35mm and below or at 75mm to 90mm. Your own photography needs may be completely different from mine. The second issue I have with the 50mm APO is flare. It doesn't do particularly well with a bright light source that is slightly out of the frame. There's nothing terrible about it, but I definitely need to be a little careful in how I compose or I may need to shield the lens with my hand. On the plus side, it's small, light, I love the ergonomics of the twist up lens shade, it's easy to focus accurately on an 'M' body, and the lens really seems to disappear in most of my images; it doesn't imprint its "stamp" on the photograph (aside from the acutance, but you only notice that when pixel peeping or making large prints or when cropping heavily). It just seems to get out of the way and let the photographer make or break the picture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted July 19, 2017 Share #35 Posted July 19, 2017 Too bad the apo doesn't imprint its stamp. I would expect at least that, for the price. Apo imprints its stamp? Good. Apo doesnt imprint its stamp? Meh. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted July 19, 2017 Share #36 Posted July 19, 2017 What I do not understand in this thread any more: Do we speak of the M lenses or the ones for other cameras? Should we really mix up everything? Does this make sense! What has a 50mm M lens to do with any other 50mm for any other mount? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M10Alpine Posted July 19, 2017 Share #37 Posted July 19, 2017 A question... I have the following lenses: 21mm LUX 35mm LUX FLE 50mm LUX (Chrome version) The one lens I rarely use and take with me on my traveling (I'm on the road plus 150 days a year) is my 21mm LUX so I'm thinking of trying to trade it for a 50mm APO, BUT is that stupid? If its stupid, what would you trade the 21mm LUX for given that I want some thing that's easy to bring along when traveling. Obviously the Noctilux is very different to the 50 LUX and APO, but even bigger... And the difference between the APO and the LUX is small... I have a total crush on the APO - the size the images. But the 21mm is special. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted July 20, 2017 Share #38 Posted July 20, 2017 A question... I have the following lenses: 21mm LUX 35mm LUX FLE 50mm LUX (Chrome version) The one lens I rarely use and take with me on my traveling (I'm on the road plus 150 days a year) is my 21mm LUX so I'm thinking of trying to trade it for a 50mm APO, BUT is that stupid? If its stupid, what would you trade the 21mm LUX for given that I want some thing that's easy to bring along when traveling. Obviously the Noctilux is very different to the 50 LUX and APO, but even bigger... And the difference between the APO and the LUX is small... I have a total crush on the APO - the size the images. But the 21mm is special. Well if it were me, I would sell the 21 lux and get the 21 SEM, which would give you about $3,000 left over. That plus the sale of 50 lux (I assume ASPH) ought to put you in the vicinity of a 50 cron AA. The 21 SEM, 35 lux FLE, & 50 cron AA, will give you a quite light and excellent kit. The 50 cron AA is my favourite lens and unless you are shooting in near darkness almost all the time I think you would end up with better quality images and a much lighter and smaller kit to carry around, and when it is dark you still have the 35 lux FLE. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 20, 2017 Share #39 Posted July 20, 2017 Horses for courses. I'm not good at comparing different focal lengths but you might miss the 21/1.4 if you sell it. And i'm not sure why you'd need the 50/2 apo if you own a 50/1.4 asph already. Unless sharpness in borders and corners at f/2 and a smoother bokeh around f/2.8 is of utmost importance that is. Now if the 21/1.4 must go, or even if you keep it (never sell a Leica lens my grandmother said ), i would pick a 21/3.4 asph certainly. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M10Alpine Posted July 20, 2017 Share #40 Posted July 20, 2017 And i'm not sure why you'd need the 50/2 apo if you own a 50/1.4 asph already. i would pick a 21/3.4 asph certainly. Thats pretty much nails it. I agree I don't need the APO likewise I don't need the 21LUX the 21/3.4 asph would make more sense. I guess what I'm asking is the magic of the 50/APO really that magical? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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