2wk Posted December 6, 2017 Share #61 Posted December 6, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I mean it should have been a recall. Thats like Mercedes selling a $130,000 car and we find out a gear in the transmission is made of plastic. Many brands are not selling at ultra premium pricing. I think you will find that no other camera brand repairs lenses for free after 5 years. It would be great if Leica could offer that, but at least they offer the repair for a reasonable fee. many brands don't even offer that. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 6, 2017 Posted December 6, 2017 Hi 2wk, Take a look here New S 008. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted December 6, 2017 Share #62 Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) I think you will find that no other camera brand repairs lenses for free after 5 years. It would be great if Leica could offer that, but at least they offer the repair for a reasonable fee. many brands don't even offer that.I won't rehash all the related points, which have been covered in other threads, including when the clock started ticking (and FW update that might have exacerbated the lens failure issue). Overall, Leica dropped the ball, especially with lack of communications and clarity...before, during and after the ultimate policy (the preceding policy was without limit). Other companies have issued recalls, some with designated time slots for efficient repair. I cited examples elsewhere. Jeff Edited December 6, 2017 by Jeff S 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted December 6, 2017 Share #63 Posted December 6, 2017 The previous policy was "we will repair this malfunction for free," which was replaced by "we will repair for free within the first five years of ownership, and charge a small fee beyond that." You still have not stated which other camera company does better. In my experience, other companies release an updated product and expect you to buy that. Many companies won't even repair a product after five years. I know that many people want free repairs forever. Who wouldn't? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 7, 2017 Share #64 Posted December 7, 2017 The previous policy was "we will repair this malfunction for free," which was replaced by "we will repair for free within the first five years of ownership, and charge a small fee beyond that." You still have not stated which other camera company does better. In my experience, other companies release an updated product and expect you to buy that. Many companies won't even repair a product after five years. I know that many people want free repairs forever. Who wouldn't? Do a forum search... I did the research and linked to camera companies that issued recalls for defective products .... as already noted in my reply to you. Leica sold defective products at top of line prices. The first policy response was fair, but the communications about the problem, the cause, and the solution were essentially nonexistent, and still are. And the service turnaround for US customers was generally appalling. The revised policy was worse. I already noted the later FW issue, occurring later, which some dealers think worsened the problem. This has all been covered before. Look it up if you're interested. The threads are not hard to find. If the risk of failure is so small going forward, Leica shouldn't be concerned with any financial impact. They're obviously not willing to make that bet. Trust is a two way street. Jeff 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alo Ako Posted December 7, 2017 Share #65 Posted December 7, 2017 Leica sold defective products at top of line prices. The first policy response was fair, but the communications about the problem, the cause, and the solution were essentially nonexistent, and still are. Both is wrong. As Leica communicated at a workshop all was fine until they upgraded the AF with the S 007. AF was made stronger, which crashed the construction at the lenses, which were not made for such a strong AF. All lenses are fine with S before S 007. So if you use the old lenses with S 007 its a bug. Elsewhere it is not. That is what Leica communicated here in Germany. If you want to buy a lens, have a call and ask the service if lens number xxxxxxxx is fine for S 007. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 7, 2017 Share #66 Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) Both is wrong. As Leica communicated at a workshop all was fine until they upgraded the AF with the S 007. AF was made stronger, which crashed the construction at the lenses, which were not made for such a strong AF. All lenses are fine with S before S 007. So if you use the old lenses with S 007 its a bug. Elsewhere it is not. That is what Leica communicated here in Germany. If you want to buy a lens, have a call and ask the service if lens number xxxxxxxx is fine for S 007. A workshop is not customer-wide communication. Some lenses failed, some didn't. Nobody could predict failure, which is presumably why preemptive repair wasn't even allowed until recently, at any cost. I'm done rehashing this here. I suggest you read the forum threads on the issue, including real stories from loyal customers who have owned every S model, and who have experienced multiple failures.... of lenses and bodies. Jeff Edited December 7, 2017 by Jeff S 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted December 7, 2017 Share #67 Posted December 7, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Both is wrong. As Leica communicated at a workshop all was fine until they upgraded the AF with the S 007. AF was made stronger, which crashed the construction at the lenses, which were not made for such a strong AF. All lenses are fine with S before S 007. So if you use the old lenses with S 007 its a bug. Elsewhere it is not. That is what Leica communicated here in Germany. If you want to buy a lens, have a call and ask the service if lens number xxxxxxxx is fine for S 007. When upgrading from the S2 to the SE the lenses whined at a high pitch, very noticeable difference with the upgrade. Thinking that a higher pitch is associated with greater speed did Leica again increase AF speed with the S007? My 70mm lens had never seen a S007, it sat for several months unused, when placed on a SE it had the AF issue. Leica claims a part change is necessary for lens AF issues however there must be more to this story, there's too many inconsistencies reported. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted December 7, 2017 Share #68 Posted December 7, 2017 The previous policy was "we will repair this malfunction for free," which was replaced by "we will repair for free within the first five years of ownership, and charge a small fee beyond that." You still have not stated which other camera company does better. In my experience, other companies release an updated product and expect you to buy that. Many companies won't even repair a product after five years. I know that many people want free repairs forever. Who wouldn't? I think you miss the point here, or you may just disagree with it :-) This is not an issue of the length of a warranty on a product which fails due to wear and tear. It relates to the responsibility a company should bear for an intrinsic design fault which the company has accepted. There should not be a time limitation on repairs in such a situation. In some jurisdictions the law would override the company's self determined limitation of liability. I think that is the case here ins Australia. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted December 7, 2017 Share #69 Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) I think you miss the point here, or you may just disagree with it :-) This is not an issue of the length of a warranty on a product which fails due to wear and tear. It relates to the responsibility a company should bear for an intrinsic design fault which the company has accepted. There should not be a time limitation on repairs in such a situation. In some jurisdictions the law would override the company's self determined limitation of liability. I think that is the case here ins Australia. In Norway the guarantee limit for "fabrikasjons-feil" (error in manufacturing of product), which might be the case here, is 5 years, nothing beyond that. Not sure if this is EU rule, but would expect it to be in line. Edited December 7, 2017 by erlingmm 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynp Posted December 7, 2017 Share #70 Posted December 7, 2017 Both is wrong. As Leica communicated at a workshop all was fine until they upgraded the AF with the S 007. AF was made stronger, which crashed the construction at the lenses, which were not made for such a strong AF. All lenses are fine with S before S 007. So if you use the old lenses with S 007 its a bug. Elsewhere it is not. That is what Leica communicated here in Germany. If you want to buy a lens, have a call and ask the service if lens number xxxxxxxx is fine for S 007. My personal experience is a bit different. I have no 007 nor even 006. I have the S2-P. My first lens , the S120, got broken on my S2 with very old firmware. The second lens , the S100, defaulted on my SL with the adapter. Both were repaired by Leica and they know the story behind the failures . My S24 got the AF problem on my friend’s 007 and he took over the lens then. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wk Posted December 8, 2017 Share #71 Posted December 8, 2017 Regardless how and when they failed we are talking about $7000, $8000 lenses here. The AF gear should be made out of titanium for that price. Have you seen the internals on the new canon L glass?! Bombproof. But even this level of quality should not be enough for a Leica S lens. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted December 8, 2017 Share #72 Posted December 8, 2017 updated > Fujifilm GFX 50R Photokina 2018 (September 25 – September 30) Price between $3,900 to $4,300 50MP sensor still Range Finder Medium Format Mirrorless İntercangeable Lens Camera Announcement or shipping ( which one is not clear ) will be at Photokina 2018 Basically X-Pro version of GFX 50S It's been talked about for a while now. Fuji said it was coming at the GFX launch, that GFX would be a family of cameras. https://fujiaddict.com/2017/12/01/fujifilm-gfx-r-announcement-coming-in-2018/ It comes as no real surprise given Fuji's long history of Medium Format Rangefinders. With a cheaper price than the GFX-50s and also a price drop on GFX-50s, it will really put a cat amongst the pigeons. It will probably outsell everything. Leica is going to have to pull a rabbit out of the hat with the S. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted December 8, 2017 Share #73 Posted December 8, 2017 Range Finder Medium Format Mirrorless İntercangeable Lens Camera Basically X-Pro version of GFX 50S The X-Pro is not a rangefinder camera.... john Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted December 8, 2017 Share #74 Posted December 8, 2017 probably means the xpro2 hybrid VF The X-Pro is not a rangefinder camera.... john Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted December 8, 2017 Share #75 Posted December 8, 2017 We've had the exceptional Fuji Medium format rangefinders for decades. Most recently they had a 6x7 model which was still very reasonably priced. While it may be a hybrid viewfinder, it may just be an actual rangefinder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted December 8, 2017 Share #76 Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) this is a something like a rangefinder patch in this video.. https://youtu.be/3D6pC_D00jM?t=1m55s We've had the exceptional Fuji Medium format rangefinders for decades. Most recently they had a 6x7 model which was still very reasonably priced. While it may be a hybrid viewfinder, it may just be an actual rangefinder. Edited December 8, 2017 by frame-it Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wk Posted December 8, 2017 Share #77 Posted December 8, 2017 ^ Something that looks like it but it is definitely not a rangefinder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted December 9, 2017 Share #78 Posted December 9, 2017 All lenses are fine with S before S 007. Not true. One of my lenses died with the S2P. The problem probably got worse with the S007 though. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted December 9, 2017 Share #79 Posted December 9, 2017 Indeed, all mine broke with the S2-P and none since I got my S(007) a few months back ;-) john 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBart Posted January 11, 2018 Share #80 Posted January 11, 2018 Both is wrong. As Leica communicated at a workshop all was fine until they upgraded the AF with the S 007. AF was made stronger, which crashed the construction at the lenses, which were not made for such a strong AF. All lenses are fine with S before S 007. So if you use the old lenses with S 007 its a bug. Elsewhere it is not. That is what Leica communicated here in Germany. If you want to buy a lens, have a call and ask the service if lens number xxxxxxxx is fine for S 007. I had 4 lens failures so far. All with the S 006 body being used. The 24mm and 24-90mm and 2x with the 120mm cs. Leica said pretty much nothing about what they did differently and I could only assume they replaced the faulty part with a newly designed and better made part. Unfortunately my 120mm broke within one yr of owning it and then again almost 4yrs later. The lenses ALWAYS break when I first turn on the camera and it does it's calibration thing. It does crank fast when turning on the camera and I suspect it's part of the issue with the lenses breaking. Leica always fixed for free but it can be a pain considering it takes 3 months for repairs. Hope they get their customer service in order. It's been 5 yrs with the S System and it only gets worse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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