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Is intense Lightroom cheating


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#1 Sandbites

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 17:59

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Since I got my new leicaQ I've been using intense Lightroom on some shots. strictly speaking when I adjust the pics on Lightroom is that cheating? Does the picture no longer represent what the camera produces. I only adjust the lighting and clarity heavily. The colors I leave alone.
Example is the attached picture
Attached File  IMG_2022.PNG   2.14MB   24 downloads

#2 Sandbites

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 18:00

Here is anotherAttached File  IMG_2024.PNG   1.08MB   16 downloads
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#3 lucerne

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 18:18

The raw file output is completely unadjusted and it is up to you to massage the image in Lightroom to suit your needs. You are not cheating. The Jpg file straight from the camera HAS been slightly adjusted to make it look acceptable but you can still adjust it. Best results come from adjusting the RAW file.
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#4 dadohead

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 18:24

Is it cheating that Ansel Adams burned and dodged parts of Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico? If you crop a photo, is that cheating? HDR? Cheating? These are personal questions that only you can answer.


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#5 Bart van Hofwegen

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 18:24

Oh boy, here we go. Be prepared for as many opinions as there are individuals on this topic. I a not going to give mine, but I will give some context to the question. What you are referring to is post-processing and how far you could go before calling it "cheating".

 

Well, the fact is that if you load a RAW file in Lightroom and leave all the sliders alone, a LOT of post-processing has actually already been done to the out-of camera data. A lot. If it were not so, there would no be much to see. Demosaicing is performed first, to get colors from the sensor that only detects lightness and is covered by a bayer filter to get a sense of color. This is a relatively straightforward process, but the result is not worth looking at by itself. This is where Lightroom does a lot more that is more subjective. A tone (contrast) curve is used, white balance shift and color mapping is performed. Even without touching any of the sliders. These curves and mappings were created by Adobe, maybe in cooperation with Leica, to create what they think is what it should look like and what is probably going to produce good results on all types of shots and subjects. Use another tool (RPP, RawTherapy, etc) and you get different results. Sometimes very different. Even if you use out-of camera JPG's, the processing is done in the camera itself, to the taste of the Leica engineers, and it differs from Lightroom. A lot.

 

So, post processing is already heavily applied, even before you yourself kick in. Choices have been made, by other people even before you get a chance. There is no "what the camera sees", though the in camera JPG should come close to what Leica intended. How far should you go after that? Is it cheating? You now have some more background for the thought process. Good luck!


Edited by Bart van Hofwegen, 19 June 2017 - 18:25.


#6 Belle123

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 18:36

Cheating implies you are in some kind of contest with rules, or taking a test. Never is it cheating, otherwise. You can be as creative as you desire. Who cares......really? Why does it matter? If you are being criticized for post processing, I.e. That the image isn't exactly reality, think of it as the critic's problem and not yours.
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#7 jaapv

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 19:01

You take a photograph because you have a vision of the end result. The camera and postprocessing are just tools to create that end result; cheating doesn't come into it.

Having said that, go easy on the clarity slider, it creates haloes and other artefacts if used in excess. And do start controlling your colours, calibrate your screen and optimize.


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#8 Msohio

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 19:51

If your reason for the image is to record history as a reporter might, then I'd say "no". Otherwise, you are creating what your eyes/mind saw and wanted to remember and/or share; in which case all options are available to do just that.


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#9 robgo2

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 22:31

If your goal is to create images that have impact and express your artistic vision, then all things are allowed. But if you wish instead to record a scene as accurately as possible, then editing should be appropriate for that task. You decide.

Rob

#10 wda

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 22:52

I do not know why you think you are cheating. If you go overboard and falsify the original, that is your interpretation. If your exaggerated images were published leading others to believe they are accurate, then you would be misleading others and risk suffering loss of your personal credibility. It depends on what you do with your extreme interpretations.
David
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#11 david strachan

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 00:53

Sometimes glossy magazines do cheat.  Over processed models, with bigger boobs and skinnier waists, plastic skin etc. Men with exaggerated tummy muscles and over processed bodies, again.

Taking objects out and adding other objects into an image, may be cheating.  Depends.

 

It depends if you are trying to "trick" or fool the viewer; particularly for financial gain. 

 

Have a good laugh by looking up Photoshop disasters on the web.

 

...



#12 frame-it

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 01:06

to the OP :

 

 

do what you like with your images

 

some people like to show out of camera Jpegs to show the results of the camera and how they got their settings right :)

 

some people like to showcase the processed images which would be printed/sold/sent to client  etc etc.

 

some people [ a lot ] just like normal unprocessed images

 

its your image it belongs to you, others may have their opinions, but so do you :)

 

personally i don't care about out of camera jpegs except to review a new lens or camera or a problem..e.g there are hundreds of great photographers on this site alone! id rather see the final product they printed or digitally delivered to their client.. :) but this is my opinion.

 

 

fun clip >


Edited by frame-it, 20 June 2017 - 01:28.

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#13 pico

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 01:51

Your over-saturated images will certainly appeal to many people. Over the top is not any kind of social faux pas. It is not like you are shouting through a bull horn in a quiet place. I do not appreciate it, but who am I but one in a billion? :)

 

Cheating? No, unless your objective or contract is to show how someone might see it in real life, but that's not your goal.

 

Enjoy



do_not_touch.png


#14 jshyshka

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 03:32

Do whatever you want - the ART of photography is up to you - helps to learn all the "what is right" stuff and then blow it away if you want !!



#15 marcg

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 06:27

It's the difference between taking a photograph – and making a photograph.
 
Taking a picture and making a picture.
 
Ansel Adams always talked about making a photograph

Dictation software used. Beware homophones!


#16 jip

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:53

The 'Clarity slider' is the one thing people love to use, but in my opinion is always instantly visible (that it is the clarity slider) I never use it more than "-3 to +4"

 

In my Lightroom workshops I teach people how to get the result they want without using the Clarity slider since that is like the easiest way to give your photo some pop, but it also looks very cheap especially those overly done B&W photos "ooh let me just add some clarity" NOPE!

 

So I strongly suggest you to keep using Lightroom, use all the sliders and things but leave the clarity slider alone!


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#17 Voxen

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:14

Do what you want with your photos, its art after all and there is no rules.

Moreover, you don't care about what others think. Do what you like.



#18 jaapv

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 14:15

The 'Clarity slider' is the one thing people love to use, but in my opinion is always instantly visible (that it is the clarity slider) I never use it more than "-3 to +4"

 

In my Lightroom workshops I teach people how to get the result they want without using the Clarity slider since that is like the easiest way to give your photo some pop, but it also looks very cheap especially those overly done B&W photos "ooh let me just add some clarity" NOPE!

 

So I strongly suggest you to keep using Lightroom, use all the sliders and things but leave the clarity slider alone!

Adobe added that slider as they found that people tweaked midtone contrast by using the Unsharp Mask @ 20%,50,2 or thereabouts, so they decided to automate the process. Sadly, all control over detail enhancement is lost this way.


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Elliot Erwitt


#19 jip

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 17:13

Adobe added that slider as they found that people tweaked midtone contrast by using the Unsharp Mask @ 20%,50,2 or thereabouts, so they decided to automate the process. Sadly, all control over detail enhancement is lost this way.

 

 

 

It's an easy way to ruin your micro-contrast!

 

And an easy way to make your image look like all other photographers who use the slider. 


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#20 Phil4369

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 20:03

I never use the clarity slider, neither in Lightroom nor in Capture One, I don't even think about it.


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