TL lenses on SL

[scott kirkpatrick]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

For use in video, the APS-C coverage of the T lenses is perfect, since the super 35 area from which the SL gathers its 4K video is just a bit smaller than APS-C.  But up to April 2016, the T firmware was evolving, and to get a T lens to work on an SL required a trip to the Leica store or to someone with an updated T to make the lens firmware work with the SL.  Has that situation changed? I don't find an SL or T thread on this since early 2016.

 

There are currently lots of T lenses available at well below their original selling price, some NOS, some used.  The sellers don't know anything about T firmware, so I would assume the lenses come with original firmware.  Has SL firmware developed T lens upgrade capability?

 

scott

[steppenw0lf]

Interesting question - but I think it is necessary to ask Leica support.

I am also often a bit astounded that Leica "seems" to encourage the use of T lenses on the SL, but in the end shows no examples and very little documentation about it (about "cross-brand" usage of lenses.)

Probably reflecting the fact that there are product managers for different brands, but none with a cross-brand point of view.

As soon as a TL with an EVF comes (if ever) I will feel tempted to buy the TL 60mm macro lens to use it on both cameras (maybe as a small 90mm).

 

I am also wondering what the AF speed of the T primes is - in the context of the new SL primes  (I wonder if they are typically all slower than the zooms, maybe because they are more compact and the corresponding compact motors are still lacking speed/power/torque.)

Edited June 14, 2017 by steppenw0lf

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Irakly Shanidze]

Interesting question - but I think it is necessary to ask Leica support.

I am also often a bit astounded that Leica "seems" to encourage the use of T lenses on the SL, but in the end shows no examples and very little documentation about it (about "cross-brand" usage of lenses.)

Probably reflecting the fact that there are product managers for different brands, but none with a cross-brand point of view.

As soon as a TL with an EVF comes (if ever) I will feel tempted to buy the TL 60mm macro lens to use it on both cameras (maybe as a small 90mm).

 

I am also wondering what the AF speed of the T primes is - in the context of the new SL primes  (I wonder if they are typically all slower than the zooms, maybe because they are more compact and the corresponding compact motors are still lacking speed/power/torque.)

 

 

Do not get astounded. T optics is indeed of very high quality, 55-135 APO is a stellar. The trick with SL is that when you shoot 4K, only Super35-sized part of the frame is in use, and this is roughly the same as APS-C. So, when you use a full-frame lens, anything outside of this area is of no use. T lenses are much lighter and smaller, hence more manageable when shooting video handheld.

 

I am using 18-56 all the time. Its only mechanical drawback is that the zoom is not as smooth as on 24-90, but with follow focus capable rig it is irrelevant.

[scott kirkpatrick]

...

I am using 18-56 all the time. Its only mechanical drawback is that the zoom is not as smooth as on 24-90, but with follow focus capable rig it is irrelevant.

Did you need to go locate a T in order to upgrade your lens' firmware for use on the SL?  Or had that been done before you got the lens? Or has this requirement gone away with recent (>=2.2) SL firmware?

Edited June 15, 2017 by scott kirkpatrick

[Irakly Shanidze]

I haven't done anything, it worked from the get go. However, there are a couple of things that I mentioned in a filmmakers thread.

[steppenw0lf]

So the question is still open - do the T lenses get firmware updates and do you need a TL camera to update them ?

 

Maybe the next question - how find out the firmware level of lenses (T, SL, S, ...). I know that my SL 90-280 was updated (a message was displayed), but I do not know how to display the current status (if possible at all).

[scott kirkpatrick]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I'll be picking up a T 11-23 next week and will just see what happens.  I've also sent this question off to Dave Farkas and Josh Lehrer at Leicastoremiami.  I'll be in the Bay area and should be able to find a T and a store that might help if I need to and I look hard.  I hope this isn't a deep rabbit hole.

Edited June 15, 2017 by scott kirkpatrick

[scott kirkpatrick]

So the question is still open - do the T lenses get firmware updates and do you need a TL camera to update them ?

 

Maybe the next question - how find out the firmware level of lenses (T, SL, S, ...). I know that my SL 90-280 was updated (a message was displayed), but I do not know how to display the current status (if possible at all).

When you check "Camera Information" on an SL with an SL lens, does it give you the lens firmware level as well as the camera information?  I suspect not (mine are packed at the moment so I can't just look).

[Guest VVJ]

Maybe the next question - how find out the firmware level of lenses (T, SL, S, ...). I know that my SL 90-280 was updated (a message was displayed), but I do not know how to display the current status (if possible at all).

 

The S will actually show you the lens firmware version in the menu.  AFAIK this is not possible with the T or the SL.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I haven't done anything, it worked from the get go. However, there are a couple of things that I mentioned in a filmmakers thread.

I'll check this next week, but can't find the post you refer to, in which you had an SL-hang with your T lens.  Can you remind me what happened?

 

scott

[scott kirkpatrick]

Received new in the box T zoom lens.  Sticker  on the back cap says "use only with a T having firmware 1.2 or newer."  On the SL, it works without incident -- took a few still pictures.  I will report if anything else happens, but this looks good.

[Guest VVJ]

Firmware 1.2 for the T dates from 2014... so I guess it is safe to say that it will work with almost any T (unless it stil has the initial release and was never upgraded) and consequently also with any SL as the SL was only released end of 2015...?

[scott kirkpatrick]

My T lens from 2014 is still working fine on my SL.  Using the SL as a 10 MPx APS-C camera with a nice close-focusing zoom is pretty useful, given that I seldom show my pictures on a bigger than 4K screen.  Here's an example from today:

 

S1000644 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

 

I tried some test shots in which I compared the 11-23 at 18 mm wide open, autofocused, with my 28 SX-M at f/5.6, looking at each in full frame on a 4K screen.  The SX-M came out a bit underexposed, with greenish edges, while the TL picture looked great.  YMMV.

 

scott

Edited July 4, 2017 by scott kirkpatrick

[scott kirkpatrick]

Firmware 1.2 for the T dates from 2014... so I guess it is safe to say that it will work with almost any T (unless it stil has the initial release and was never upgraded) and consequently also with any SL as the SL was only released end of 2015...?

I still haven't gotten to the bottom of this question.  The only information that Leica customer support can share is about the T and TL firmware.  As with the SL, the TL lenses do receive upgrades in some of the camera firmware upgrades, but the instructions for firmware updates talk only about the cameras.  Leica's concept of the T purchaser is that this person is not technical, and does not want to be bothered with questions that cannot be addressed with pictures...  They do publish MTFs for the lenses showing performance at far and near focus distances (the edges get softer when focused close, the centers stay extremely sharp), but nothing is said about software characteristics.

 

The T firmware was upgraded to 1.6.1 in January 2017.  At the same time, the TL firmware reached level 2.1.1.  The T firmware cannot be upgraded directly from its earliest versions -- first you have to go to the January 2016 level (1.5x), then to the January 2017 level.  But this is not helping me, as I don't have a T or TL, and still do not know if one exists in Israel, where I live.

 

Apparently, the T lenses operate internally in a very similar way to SL (and perhaps S) lenses.  For example, when you half-press the shutter, the top LCD shows the focus distance and the inner and outer limits of DOF, information which the T cannot use.  I am hopeful that someday they will be accepted into the SL family and supported, not just recognized, by SL firmware.

[Guest VVJ]

I still haven't gotten to the bottom of this question.  The only information that Leica customer support can share is about the T and TL firmware.  As with the SL, the TL lenses do receive upgrades in some of the camera firmware upgrades, but the instructions for firmware updates talk only about the cameras.  Leica's concept of the T purchaser is that this person is not technical, and does not want to be bothered with questions that cannot be addressed with pictures...  They do publish MTFs for the lenses showing performance at far and near focus distances (the edges get softer when focused close, the centers stay extremely sharp), but nothing is said about software characteristics.

 

The T firmware was upgraded to 1.6.1 in January 2017.  At the same time, the TL firmware reached level 2.1.1.  The T firmware cannot be upgraded directly from its earliest versions -- first you have to go to the January 2016 level (1.5x), then to the January 2017 level.  But this is not helping me, as I don't have a T or TL, and still do not know if one exists in Israel, where I live.

 

Apparently, the T lenses operate internally in a very similar way to SL (and perhaps S) lenses.  For example, when you half-press the shutter, the top LCD shows the focus distance and the inner and outer limits of DOF, information which the T cannot use.  I am hopeful that someday they will be accepted into the SL family and supported, not just recognized, by SL firmware.

 

+1.  I believe you make a fair point.  

 

The TL lenses are presented on the Leica website as lenses that belong to the SL family of lenses (fully compatible) and they are increasingly being positioned as a or perhaps even the video solution for the SL.

 

It is therefore IMHO not unreasonalbe to ask for the ability to also upgrade the firmware of the lenses through the SL or at the very least for another means of upgrading the firmware independent of the TL.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Israel's only Leica representative has offered to perform T firmware upgrades for me, but it requires renting a T from someone and will cost $125 for the occasion.  I don't find this very supportive and will explore other options.  In fact, I don't even have any information from Leica to tell me if this is needed.

 

scott

[frame-it]

did you try attaching the TL lens & then loading FW3 on the SL ?

 

 

did you try Israel's only Leica representative has offered to perform T firmware upgrades for me, but it requires renting a T from someone and will cost $125 for the occasion.  I don't find this very supportive and will explore other options.  In fact, I don't even have any information from Leica to tell me if this is needed.

 

scott

Edited July 9, 2017 by frame-it

[scott kirkpatrick]

did you try attaching the TL lens & then loading FW3 on the SL ?

That's an interesting thought.  I loaded 3.0 some time ago on both SL's, and attached the T lens subsequently.  I'll give it a shot.

[rafael_macia]

That's an interesting thought.  I loaded 3.0 some time ago on both SL's, and attached the T lens subsequently.  I'll give it a shot.

 

Are you enjoying using your 11-23 ? I have heard nothing but good reviews about the T zooms.

Recently, I tried to pick up a "slightly used" one, but it turned out to have a ding, so I sent it back. 

thanks,

Rafael

Edited July 9, 2017 by rafael_macia

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[scott kirkpatrick]

That's an interesting thought.  I loaded 3.0 some time ago on both SL's, and attached the T lens subsequently.  I'll give it a shot.

Nope.  The firmware 3.0 instructions talk about offering improvements to the lens firmware for the 24-90 and 90-280 zooms.  They also say that lens firmware update starts as soon as the firmware recognizes the lens, but don't make clear whether this is the first time the camera with 3.0 firmware sees the lens or when the firmware on an SD card sees the lens that should be updated.  Anyway, nothing happened with the 11-23 T attached just now.