billh Posted June 24, 2007 Share #21 Posted June 24, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think I must be the luckiest guy around... Two bodies and twelve lenses, some dating back over forty years, some brand new, and not one misfocussing in the bunch.... Are you shooting mostly scenes and landscapes? That may be the answer, or it could simply be you have good M8s. Apparently there are some about. I typically use Leicas for people, relatively close, and more often than not, inside at wide apertures. This is an area where back focus is extremely obvious and renders a photo unusable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 24, 2007 Posted June 24, 2007 Hi billh, Take a look here Do any of these M8s work properly?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
billh Posted June 24, 2007 Share #22 Posted June 24, 2007 ......The other question is: With digital, where in the layers of sensor pixels and microlenses is the effective focal plane anyway? Hi Mark, That would not throw off the focus at 1 meter by several inches would it? Why do you think some cameras and lenses seem to be fine, but others are so far off. Perhaps the better question is what is the explanation form Leica for this problem? Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted June 24, 2007 Share #23 Posted June 24, 2007 My early November silver M8 focuses well with any of my four old Leica lenses and with a new 28 Elmarit. But a new Summilux 35 ASPH. is way off. And the aperture ring on it is practically stopless. It is going back to Leica and I expect that they will replace it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbaron Posted June 24, 2007 Share #24 Posted June 24, 2007 I now have body #3 (see my earlier post in this thread) and have been testing it this weekend. It clearly backfocuses by an inch or two at close distance and wider apertures with my 75mm Summilux and 50mm pre-ASPH Summilux. I am about to do some more tests with my (current) Noctilux and 90mm AA but previous tests indicate the same. Bottom line is that when using these lenses I cannot get sharp focus when shooting close at wider apertures. Before Leica NJ sent me body #3 they said they would test it for electrical and focus issues. I assume they did and it tested ok on their test apparatus. I am at a loss as to what to do next. These lenses produce exquisite images with the M8 when in focus. When the main point of the image is out of focus it is not so good. The logical answer is to advise Leica NJ and send them some images so they can see for themselves. However, I am afraid that is an answer but not likely a solution. The dealer, like me, is at the mercy of Leica. He has tried mightily to get them to ship me a proper body. Is it Leica's position that the M8 cannot be expected to produce sharp images at close distances and wide apertures unless the camera is shipped to Germany for adjustment? This turn of events is, to say the least, discouraging. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 24, 2007 Share #25 Posted June 24, 2007 Are you shooting mostly scenes and landscapes? That may be the answer, or it could simply be you have good M8s. Apparently there are some about. I typically use Leicas for people, relatively close, and more often than not, inside at wide apertures. This is an area where back focus is extremely obvious and renders a photo unusable. Landscapes, action, wildlife, portraits, anything. Usually wide open, including a Summilux 75, Elmarit 90 and a Tele Elmar 135. All tack-sharp, and when misfocussed clearly user error.And I did the "bookcase" test. I had to adjust infinity on one body first though to get it in line with the other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted June 24, 2007 Share #26 Posted June 24, 2007 Are you shooting mostly scenes and landscapes? That may be the answer, or it could simply be you have good M8s. Apparently there are some about. I typically use Leicas for people, relatively close, and more often than not, inside at wide apertures. This is an area where back focus is extremely obvious and renders a photo unusable. I photograph people up close wide open all the time (28/2, 50/1.4 and 90/4) and do product shots (with the 90/macro) with tons of detail that have to be razor sharp. I had my M8 checked when I got it against a standard (it was perfect) and I carefully check every lens I purchase and if they need it they get sent to DAG for calibration. If you are using a mechanical system with lots of interdependent parts it has to be kept in tune and calibrated. I see to it my M8 system is properly calibrated and when I focus correctly and have a fast enough shutter speed (or use strobes or a tripod) my results are in perfect focus. It is the same deal when I use any camera system. I don't count on everything being perfectly calibrated new or used. I have it checked or check it myself and if need be have it adjusted. Then I periodically make sure that things stay adjusted over time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Lad Posted June 24, 2007 Author Share #27 Posted June 24, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Graham, a diopter is an eye-correction lens, not the loupe. Do you have perfect vision? ...................................................................... Hi Carstenw, I was replying to Zoran's post where he mentioned both the diopter and the 1.25 magnifier. I have investigated the use of a diopter as well but my right (viewfinder) eye is perfect at 2 meters which according to Leica is the equivalent of the viewfinder viewing distance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbaron Posted June 24, 2007 Share #28 Posted June 24, 2007 Should I have to send this brand new M8 body to DAG for adjustment? Shouldn't Leica NJ be able to adjust it? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27340-do-any-of-these-m8s-work-properly/?do=findComment&comment=289354'>More sharing options...
B&W Posted June 24, 2007 Share #29 Posted June 24, 2007 Robert, I did have the same problem and did send it to Solm. It came back perfect! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbaron Posted June 24, 2007 Share #30 Posted June 24, 2007 Robert, I did have the same problem and did send it to Solm. It came back perfect! Thanks, Jarle. However, even with FedEx, Solms is a bit farther from Oklahoma than New Jersey. Plus, I understand the backlog there is pretty extreme. I'm not meaning to be abrupt. I'm just frustrated and venting. I had hoped the third time (third body) would be the charm. I would really like to get an M8 that works. --Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted June 24, 2007 Share #31 Posted June 24, 2007 Thanks, Jarle. However, even with FedEx, Solms is a bit farther from Oklahoma than New Jersey. Plus, I understand the backlog there is pretty extreme. I'm not meaning to be abrupt. I'm just frustrated and venting. I had hoped the third time (third body) would be the charm. I would really like to get an M8 that works. --Bob Bob-- Are you checking your lenses as well? Are they new? Sorry--I might have missed that in the post. It seems much more likely to me that, with 3 bodies, your lenses are the culprit, not the body. But the whole thing is a system, like any other pro camera. I've had all my Canons (3 different pro bodies) adjusted by Canon with my L lenses because they needed it--all of them. In fact, the new Canon 1d3 has a self-adjusting focus mechanism to help with these system issues. Having said that, yours is backfocussing badly. I would send the whole lot into DAG (or Kindermann here in Canada) because if you want a working system, you may as well have a expert look it over (I can't say for NJ...sorry). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbaron Posted June 24, 2007 Share #32 Posted June 24, 2007 To be clear: I don't have three bodies, I am on my third body. The first one worked for 30 days and then the shutter froze; it was replaced with body #2, which worked for 30 minutes and then the Play button stopped working. Body #3 is the only body I have now. I've had it since June 15, but have just this weekend had the opportunity to really try it out. My lenses are all 'old' in that I bought them starting in around 1999 or 2000, although I bought most of them new at the time. I didn't have body #2 long enough to know if it backfocused. I've looked at the shots I took with body #1 and the focus with various lenses looks much better than it does with body #3. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbaron Posted June 24, 2007 Share #33 Posted June 24, 2007 Now I find my 28mm Summicron ASPH focuses fine, from f2 to f4..... So is my issue lenses, or body? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted June 25, 2007 Share #34 Posted June 25, 2007 Robert, If you're sure that your focusing techique is fine (and I'm only saying that because sometimes we all make mistakes ) then I think you need to decide if you really want to work with the M8 and your lenses. If you do, then you only have to decide one more thing. Are you going to call Leica NJ or DAG? DAG certainly has a great reputation on this board. Since I'm in Canada, I can't help you directly with any experience. Maybe someone who's used DAG can provide contact info. Sounds to me like I'd be talking to them as well as Leica NJ. I'm sorry for your misfortune. But it does sound like you have one or more lenses that are only marginally in spec. The only way to know for sure though, is to send them in with the body and let someone who can really calibrate them have a look at both. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbaron Posted June 25, 2007 Share #35 Posted June 25, 2007 Thanks, Jamie, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. The nice thing about digital is that you can do lots of testing at no (film & developing) cost. I've done enough testing to convince myself my 35 and longer lenses do not close focus properly (as opposed to pilot error), although I can get very sharp images if I am back from the subject some distance. I've also discovered my 28mm Summicron ASPH close focuses just fine. (See attachments; the 28mm image is cropped quite a bit.) Tomorrow I'll break out my 21mm and 24mm Elmarits and see how they do up close. I'm now guessing the issue is in fact lens adjustment; the M8 does seem to be rather more sensitive to this than film Ms. The remaining question will be who gets a crack at them, Leica NJ or DAG. (And I do have DAG's contact information, thanks.) I like the M8 enough that I'm going to wrestle this problem to the ground, no matter how much aggravation I cause in the process. Thanks again for your suggestions. --Bob Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/27340-do-any-of-these-m8s-work-properly/?do=findComment&comment=289559'>More sharing options...
billh Posted June 25, 2007 Share #36 Posted June 25, 2007 ... I like the M8 enough that I'm going to wrestle this problem to the ground, no matter how much aggravation I cause in the process. Mine is at Leica only because the bottom plate cracked. Otherwise I would have tried DAG. I gave up on NJ years ago. If you sent it there, they will most likely send it onto Germany - eventually. Hopefully you will keep us posted on the course of action you choose, and on the results. Good luck! Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 25, 2007 Share #37 Posted June 25, 2007 I wonder, seeing Mark's tolerance of 0.02 mm, how much mechanical wear on the helical has to do with this problem. Not for new 35 Summilux Aspericals of course. There it seems to be more of a combination of manufacturing tolerances aggravated by focus shift. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 25, 2007 Share #38 Posted June 25, 2007 Mine is at Leica only because the bottom plate cracked. Otherwise I would have tried DAG. I gave up on NJ years ago. If you sent it there, they will most likely send it onto Germany - eventually. Hopefully you will keep us posted on the course of action you choose, and on the results. Good luck! Bill Bill, I am somewhat surprised they have not declared your one a CTL (marine insurance term = constructive total loss) and sent you a new one, given all that attaches to the back clamshell. They could then have taken yours apart and returned the parts to the pool or kept as spares. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Lad Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share #39 Posted June 25, 2007 OK, quick update. Back at the dealers today and tried all his stock M8s with 50 f1.4 and 90 f4 (both new) and 50 f2 (second hand from dealers stock). Using tripod and timer release, me focusing and dealer focusing, all wide open. All M8s, except the one with the faulty led, back focus! So I have the one with the faulty led again (which focuses properly) and the dealer is going to request a new M8 to be fine tuned before it is sent out to him. We will see.................. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted June 25, 2007 Share #40 Posted June 25, 2007 Mine seems to focus correctly with a number of lenses - so it is possible. Cheers, Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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