Just a little bit grumpy at Leica right now....

[david perry]

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Leica did not charge for re-aligning the sensor of my SL and all costs, including shipping, were covered by them under warranty. Like Gordon's SL mine is pampered and has never been bumped or dropped. I was profoundly disappointed to suffer a misalignment of the sensor and put it down to an inherent problem with the design rather than to extrinsic factors. Leica's current response suggests that they now take a different view. From an engineering perspective Leica must know how the SL's sensor is able to become misaligned and what remedial action is needed to correct it. I do wonder whether the ultrasonic cleaning function is possibly to blame, but that is just my ignorant speculation!

[antigallican]

That's a horrible story Gordon. I've had good experience of Leica service, but only on an M9. I did think I would sell off all my Nikon kit once I had my SL but I have held on (off?) because I cant be without a camera and the M9 can't cover everything. But here's a little story about the couriers. When my M9 came back from Wetzlar it was perfect. But the courier guy stood in his van outside my house once he'd delivered for some time and from the sounds it was obvious he was rearranging the van by throwing parcels around. Maybe the parcels should be marked 'camera - use a bit of sense'.

 

 

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[graeme_clarke]

I've got nothing but praise for Leica service so far...

 

Here's the timeline:

Mon 8.5.17 - SL +24-90 on tripod blew over by freak wind on limestone pavement in west of Ireland. Landed with lens down crack in rocks. Lee filter system smashed and twisted over lens, damage to rubber on lens, body deformed at tripod bush. No visible damage to glass or lens flange. Camera switched on but I did not "try it". 

Wed 10.5.17 returned from Ireland to UK.  Contacted insurance company who asked me to send it to Leica.  Leica UK emailed a UPS courier label to send it to Wetzlar

Thurs 11.5.17 - body and lens in original boxes packed for shipping and collected by UPS (told be Leica not to include battery, SD cards and accessories.

Tues 16.5.17 UPS confirm delivery

Wed 17.5.17 Acknowledgement of receipt from Leica Customer Service

Fri 19.5.17 at 10:30 BST Email of detailed description of damage and estimate for replacement parts and labour charges for repair.  Forwarded to insurance company who at 13:00 agreed estimate (incredulous at speed of reply and detail given, and said  Canon and Nikon poor in comparison). 14:00 email to Leica customer service accepting estimate. At 14:20 email back from Leica Customer service saying work put in hand.

 

Lens is to be stripped, realigned, zoom and focus mechanisms checked, rubber covering on rings to be replaced. Body is to be stripped and checked, sensor realigned, body parts replaced and recovered.

 

Leica service has been exemplary to date.  I'm waiting to hear further when the job is complete...

 

Here's hoping it will be done in just as timely a way and that all will be well!

 

Graeme

[jrehorek1]

Hello, 

sorry for your issues with sensor alignment. Unfortunately, my recent experience with Leica Service was very similar. My issue was with the Live View button on the top cover which stopped working. My camera was always either in a padded bag or in my hands. I suspected a trivial mechanical issue with the micro switch under the button. Leica responded 4 weeks after receiving the camera. The response was similar to what I saw above: "heavy usage marks on the body, body dropped, exposure to dirt, leather cover to be replaced etc...". I had an option to either agree with EUR 400 bill for repair or get the camera back unrepaired. When it came back (after another 5 weeks}, the detailed bill mentioned an item costing EUR 37 - the actual microswitch. The remaining 370 EUR was labour costs.

Needless to say I'm not very happy. Not only because of the way how Leica handled the whole transaction but mainly because now I  suspect that regardless all the advertized ruggedness and waterproofing, the camera can't handle normal day to day use without mechanical failures.

[helged]

 

I bought a third SL from a German dealer a couple of weeks ago and and used it only in my office for betatesting. The body never left my desk and was visually in mint condition.  (it was a demonstration model)  Because of my 'spirit level' issue during the test I sent it to Wetzlar at the end of the test phase. I got the same diagnosis "Impact Damage" ("Stoßschaden"), Heavy usage marks ("starke Gebrauchsspuren"), body damaged ("Gehäuse beschädigt"), and some other diagnoses. 

They even mentioned that the leathers has to be replaced (remember: mint condition).

 

Believe me, I know how to pack a body for sending it to the service. So I can exclude a transport damage. 

 

I don't know what happened or which camera they inspected but the next time I will bring it to Wetzlar in person. Fortunately this is only 1 1/2 hour away. 

 

 

 

Hello, 

sorry for your issues with sensor alignment. Unfortunately, my recent experience with Leica Service was very similar. My issue was with the Live View button on the top cover which stopped working. My camera was always either in a padded bag or in my hands. I suspected a trivial mechanical issue with the micro switch under the button. Leica responded 4 weeks after receiving the camera. The response was similar to what I saw above: "heavy usage marks on the body, body dropped, exposure to dirt, leather cover to be replaced etc...". I had an option to either agree with EUR 400 bill for repair or get the camera back unrepaired. When it came back (after another 5 weeks}, the detailed bill mentioned an item costing EUR 37 - the actual microswitch. The remaining 370 EUR was labour costs.

Needless to say I'm not very happy. Not only because of the way how Leica handled the whole transaction but mainly because now I  suspect that regardless all the advertized ruggedness and waterproofing, the camera can't handle normal day to day use without mechanical failures.

 

(red and black outlining by me).

 

Two (near) identical descriptions and experiences: Near flawless bodies sent to Leica - but heavily used bodies judged by Leica. This is hard to understand. If I may, this reminds me about Dire Straits' Industrial Disease, reporting from Speakes Corner: "Two men say they're Jesus one of them must be wrong". (and please note, I do not say that I don't trust Ingo or jrehorek1).

 

[kikouyou]

Hello Gordon, this is indeed a bad service experience. I hope it does not hide a manufacturing quality issue as definitely, it does not look from your description that your camera got a shock that would even remotely create a sensor misalignment. The only other "bad treatment" would be vibrations, but again here, we could expect this camera to resit to this kind of issues. My SL got a serious shock as it has been falling from a tripod. I was lucky to still have the thick leather protector half case but still the metal got bent close to the battery door not affecting it whatsoever. The camera had some kind of strange noisy reboot after that, but nothing else. It still works great without any issue whatsoever. And since this shock I have created thousands of pictures. So my conclusion is that the camera is not fragile, but some cameras may not be lucky during manufacturing.... Yours seem to be one of them. I seem to recall you have 2 SL. Any issue with our other SL?

Edited June 1, 2017 by kikouyou

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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Leica are doing to me what I've heard Nikon have done to customers.......

 

Sent my SL in for repair as the sensor is out of alignment. After 4-6 weeks I get the call. *Impact Damage* $A6-700 repair costs.....

 

This is a camera that lives in a Pelican Case, spends 90% of it's time on a tripod and looks new. Not a mark, scratch, blemish or dent. Hardly a fingerprint on it. Looks essentially like a new one. I'm not prone to being a liar. If I'd bumped it I'd say so. The harshest this cameras been treated is occasional use on a sling strap when I shoot the odd wedding. 90% of what I do is studio based or architecture/real estate. I'm far more careful than most working photographers I know. My A7R2 and Pentax 645Z get carried over hill and dale, in all sorts of weather bouncing along in a backpack and don't have alignment movements.

 

If this thing is so fragile that it can't handle normal use then it's kinda hard to recommend it to anybody else.

 

So what I've got is a 6-10 week duration with no camera, a BS story about something that never happened and a rather nasty repair bill. I'm the biggest Leica fanboy there is and this just makes me want to have a long look at the A9. Seems pretty obvious that Leics's claims about getting into the *pro* market are just a bunch of hot air.

 

[/END RANT]

 

Gordon

 

p.s. on another note a mate of mine dropped his A7R. Cost him $500.00 and was back in three weeks. Mine hadn't even made it to the service centre in three weeks........

Gordon

When I sent in my 2 month old in responsive S007 for evaluation that was only 2 months old I was initially told that the rubber goods on the viewfinder would need replaced.......... I replied saying WTF has a rubber viewfinder part got to do with a camera that won't switch on. I CC Sven who is the Customer service manager and a week later I had a new replacement Soo7....... at no cost.

If I were you I'd email him and make some noise Sven.Kupfer@leica-camera.com

Neil

 

 

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[danielduarte]

That's a tough story and a hard pill to swallow.

 

I owned an SL for 2 months and rode it hard. I spent a few weeks in bar harbor, Maine and beat the piss out of it. Luckily I had no issues but maybe I just won the lottery with my copy.

 

 

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[jaapv]

Just contact Leica, as Neil suggests.

I once sent in one of the Panaleicas with a broken AF. As it did have a dent, the knee-jerk reaction was impact damage so a billed repair. I only had to explain that the dent was there long before the AF broke down and the decision was instantly reversed.

[thighslapper]

I think the moral of the tale is to regard cameras returned for repair like hire cars ....... take meticulous photos from all sides and itemise significant faults yourself beforehand so you can dispute any alleged 'damage' when examined later. 

 

One advantage of handing things in to somewhere like Leica Mayfair personally is that you can get them to document any issues at the time. 

 

Leicas description of normal light usage marks would make you think you had dragged the camera behind you by the strap .....

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Well, I contacted Leica Australia  by email and received a phone call today. They have put my case forward and we will see what happens. Regardless of the final outcome I can say that Leica Australia have been absolutely brilliant. I'll abide by a reconsidered decision. After all it's a first world problem and I'm not a technician. You win some and lose others but I'm convinced that at least the local Leica have my best interests at heart. That's a good sign.

 

Gordon

[lm_user]

I thought the Leica 3 year warranty covered everything - including drops. Not that yours had one - just seems like a moot point

 

I assume camera is less than 3 years old

Edited June 5, 2017 by lm_user

[LocalHero1953]

Some of Leica's responses to service issues seem random rather than deliberately obstructive. I sent my 3 year old M240 for rf adjustment after I dropped it from a low height - which I owned up to. It came back properly fixed with nothing to pay.

????

Edited June 5, 2017 by LocalHero1953

[scott kirkpatrick]

I'm much more anxious about a hire car (especially one to be driven on the wrong side of narrow Scottish roads at absurd speeds).  But when I sent in some white wall pictures from my 7+ year old M9 to Wetzlar customer service, I was not convinced that the crud was corrosion, yet they said, "sure, send it in."  And the damage documentation at the lab of the local Leica agent's lab found dings, scratches and a chip in the LCD cover glass.  But for the price of insured shipment, which I paid, I would not be at all surprised to have it come back with new cover glass, new sensor, and a full tuneup, 1 year guarantee.  Essentially a refurb.  After a while, of course.

[profus]

Sent my SL in for repair as the sensor is out of alignment...

 

 

Excuse my ignorance - but how did you detect your sensor was out of alignment?

[Alistairm]

I had to send an M-P (240) for a tuneup after it got out of alignment after I drove a Tarmac rally with it in the boot. Took 3 months, but there was no charge and Leica Australia loaned me a type 246 at no charge while my camera was away.

 

Gordon, I expect you know the local Leica team better than anyone, but let me know if you need any contacts... I picked up some during this process.

 

Alistair

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Excuse my ignorance - but how did you detect your sensor was out of alignment?

 

Shot a wedding and the family photos, all shot at f8, had the left 20% of the frame out of focus. Other shots with the SL50 showed the plane of focus was at a diagonal to the lens plane. Followed that up with some measured out wall testing compared to my other body (I have 2 SL's) which confirmed the issue.

 

Fortunately they were a small family and the people were sharp.....

 

Gordon

[graeme_clarke]

Further to my post earlier about the short time Leica in Wetzlar took to inspect the body and lens damaged when on a tripod that blew over onto rock, then prepare an estimate, I've just had an email from UPS that today a package has been despatched to me in the UK.  They put the work in hand late on Friday 19 May so they've had it for 10 working days as I believe 25 May and 5 June are public holidays. That seems a short time given the extent of the damage to the body and lens - though I reserve full judgement until it arrives and I can try it out!

 

I’m told fastening a page up from a newspaper to a wall and, using different apertures with different points of auto focus on it, then checking that the image is sharp all over, is a simple and effective test for lens and sensor alignment.  Any thoughts?

 

Graeme

[ramarren]

That test presumes a lens with an adequately flat field at the focus distance you use, but it works fine for quick and dirty testing.

 

I'd probably just manal focus with a manual lens where I could read a distance difference off the focus scale of about 1"... something like a close focusing 135 or 180mm would do—another quick and dirty, but useful enough.

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[vladik]

I am deciding between M10 and SL right now. Reading Gordon’s post makes me vary of possible sensor alignment problems in SL. Ultrasonic sensor cleaning must mean that the sensor is not mounted hard on some supporting surface to provide ultrasonic ‘shake’ to be functional. This sensor ‘suspension’ is then potentially susceptible to misalignment. Do we know how common is this sensor out of alignment problem in SLs? Until reading this post I was leaning 70:30 towards SL, not sure now, I could live with M 10 as well.

P.S. Gordon have you try repeatedly activating ultrasonic cleaning to make the sensor to ‘realign’ itself?