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Looking for scanner advice: Flatbed v Plustek in regard of dust management


Steve Ricoh

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Looking for some advice: I'm hovering somewhere between ordering a Plustek 8200x (SE or possibly with Ai SF s/w) or an Epson V-800 or V-850.

 

The V-850 in particular seems to suffer from dust, made worse by the ANR 'glass' covering the neg holders (glass being Epson's description, but more likely to be plastic, from what I've read), with many users switching to the V-700 film holders. I've also read it's not uncommon for dust or plastic out-gassing products to coat the underside of the glass platter requiring a service return or a DIY job at cleaning.

 

How does the Plustek hold up, is it more or less prone to dust compared to a flatbed? I see a potential problem with a strip of 6 negatives in the carrier waiting their turn to enter the scanner; by design some of the negs will will be in 'fresh' air with the potential to pick up further dust. So what's the work flow? Dust the negs having loaded the carrier, then again each time a negative or slide is about to enter the enclosure? And what about dust getting into the scanner mechanism itself. Is the CCD array enclosed (in a similar manner to a flatbed scanner), or in fresh air (within the metal case). Either way there's potential for dust issues, and like a digital camera the owner/user needs options for cleaning other than returning for service.

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First thing is that removing the bed of the Epson to clean inside is a five minute job so it shouldn't be seen as a downside. But dust management is as much about not raising the dust in the first place as cleaning you negs and holder. For the later a can of compressed air and a brush will do the job, for the atmosphere around you try not to disturb anything in the room just before scanning. So dusting the room will raise dust, so dust and clean well before a scanning session. The room I scan in is pretty dusty, it's a normal room in the house, but other than dust on the negative I've never had any problems over the years with dust getting inside any of my scanners, currently Plustek and Epson. If any has ever landed on the CCD it is clearly so far out of focus so as not to show up at all.

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I have both and have not had a dust problem with either. The Plustek is a very small machine and it comes with a soft case, so it's easy to store it in a dust-free environment. I use one of those little combined brush and blow things before scanning the film, which I'm not sure is efficient enough to actually make a difference, but maybe.

 

Even though both are slow and the Epson has more possibilities being a flatbed, I actually prefer working with the Plustek. Can't really explain it because I honestly don't know why, but I do prefer using it. Think it's just something about the small size and the way you insert the film that makes it more manageable to me. 

Edited by mahakalaka
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First thing is that removing the bed of the Epson to clean inside is a five minute job so it shouldn't be seen as a downside. But dust management is as much about not raising the dust in the first place as cleaning you negs and holder. For the later a can of compressed air and a brush will do the job, for the atmosphere around you try not to disturb anything in the room just before scanning. So dusting the room will raise dust, so dust and clean well before a scanning session. The room I scan in is pretty dusty, it's a normal room in the house, but other than dust on the negative I've never had any problems over the years with dust getting inside any of my scanners, currently Plustek and Epson. If any has ever landed on the CCD it is clearly so far out of focus so as not to show up at all.

Thank you 250swb.

I've only looked at the Epson 8xx series in reviews etc, but can't see any external screw heads holding the bed (I assumed must be attached from the inside and from underneath) but now you've mentioned I'll have to look again, in a shop if I can.

 

In a review from someone who'd purchased a new Epson flatbed, out of the box the owner found evidence of dust underneath the glass bed and its replacement had the same issue. In another review someone complained of lubricant-like deposits, however if the bed can be easily removed that's reassuring.

 

Someone on here did a strip down of a 'defunct' Plustek, and going from the pictures there was no evidence of anything other than air between the negative and the scanner array, so a blast of air should do the trick.

As you rightly say, dust management is key but that's tricky in a family dwelling.

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I have both a Plustek 7100 and an Epson V700 but I haven't used either for quite a while. I can't say that one had more or less trouble with dust than the other. There was always a fair amount of "spotting" to do in post. I believe that at least a part of the problem was static electricity. My current scanning setup is a BEOON copy stand with a Fuji X-E2 and 50/2.8 Componon-S enlarging lens. I have the base of the BEOON grounded and I always touch the ground point before I pick up a strip of negatives and run it gently through two extended fingers and then run it through the BEOON for the scan. With this setup and process I have virtually no dust spots on the scans.

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I have both a Plustek 7100 and an Epson V700 but I haven't used either for quite a while. I can't say that one had more or less trouble with dust than the other. There was always a fair amount of "spotting" to do in post. I believe that at least a part of the problem was static electricity. My current scanning setup is a BEOON copy stand with a Fuji X-E2 and 50/2.8 Componon-S enlarging lens. I have the base of the BEOON grounded and I always touch the ground point before I pick up a strip of negatives and run it gently through two extended fingers and then run it through the BEOON for the scan. With this setup and process I have virtually no dust spots on the scans.

Sounds excellent, but as I've quickly come to understand there's nothing simple in this hybrid world of analogue processing.

 

As I understand it, one issue with using a digital camera is the bayer array, unlike a scanner having separate channels for RGB, and the ability to scan B&W in 16 bits. Is this overstated or not?

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Sounds excellent, but as I've quickly come to understand there's nothing simple in this hybrid world of analogue processing.

 

As I understand it, one issue with using a digital camera is the bayer array, unlike a scanner having separate channels for RGB, and the ability to scan B&W in 16 bits. Is this overstated or not?

 

I was only addressing the dust issue in my reply and suggesting that static charge may be part of the problem.

 

Scanners vs. digital cameras is a another can of worms. Shooting RAW with the X-E2 (which has no bayer filter), developing with Iridient X-Transformer and processing (including inverting and desaturating) with Affinity Photo I get better B&W results than I did in years of working with either of my scanners. I am partially color blind and don't work in color at all, but many of the issues concerning digital camera scanning that I see on the web involve color representation.

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I take far less care than I should regards dust, Steve, and it's not a major problem. Within that problem, dust inside the scanner is negligible compared to dust outside the scanner.

 

They are both good scanners, and you will see posts from happy owners scattered throughout the "I like film..." thread. As Adam pointed out earlier, don't overthink this. The Plustek has an advantages of being very good, small, simple, and is easy to work (I have the 120 version, as I wanted to be able to scan MF). The Epson has the advantages of being very good, able to scan larger formats, able to scan prints and documents, and is easy to work with.

 

I've also used the digitising route, with an A7R and a MP-E 65 Macro lens set up on a StackShot Macro Rail and a light table. I definitely prefer scanning.

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I'm reading this with great interest, as I'm also just getting back into film. I can't quite say yet, but expect that I will particularly enjoy it for grainy b&w, which is where film is very different from digital. It brings wonderful abstraction. When scanning b&w, dust detection is not a factor, right? Has anyone considered or had success with the Plustek 135? It's simpler than the 120, but also does batch scanning. Thanks!

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I've also started to get back into film.  Developing my own B&W and considering C41 development too as I have just picked up a used Jobo.

 

At the moment I scan using either a Pakon F135 Plus or Fuji Frontier SP-500.  So far I have not suffered any problems with dust.  My colour films are being developed for me and I ask that they are uncut, I then scan the entire roll of film in one go.  In between scanning sessions I cover both scanners with a large bag and I keep the door closed to the room (we have pets).

 

I've been using Fotospeed RA-50 for the final rinse of my B&W films, not sure what the lab have been using on the colour films.

 

I have also been thinking of getting a Plustek 120 so that I can scan medium format in the future as both my scanners can only scan 35mm, to do this I will have to sell one first. 

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Obviously any horizontal surface becomes a potential resting ground for dust, and in this regard the Epson V850 (and V-800) have a glass platen and an Anti Newton glass (read plastic) plate in the film holder. As far as I can make out the Plustek has 'fresh air' between the film holder and the CCD array, so it appears Plustek wins in terms of dust management.

 

Off topic, but of potential interest, of the two the Plustek is slower and less convenient but is capable of producing scans capable of holding up to greater magnification compared to the Epson.

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Steve, I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the Plustek.  In doing some research I've just stumbled on this web site, you may already know it.

 

http://www.filmscanner.info/en/FilmscannerTestberichte.html

 

Jut thought it may have some useful info on there.

Certainly will Wyck, I'll report back when I get into the flow.

 

I must say the review linked ( http://www.filmscanner.info/en/FilmscannerTestberichte.html ) doesn't paint a rosy picture, but this review ( https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/267131-plustek-scanners-and-silverfast-8-software/ ) is more upbeat.

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It is a fine scanner, Steve. GaryB is using basically the same unit, with great results. Plustek (in Taiwan) have been very good to deal with for me.

You'll find plenty of comments on LUF denigrating SilverFast, but I don't have a problem with either it, or Vuescan.

 

Most of all, show us the results!

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Apart from Silverfast's on-line guides, is there a book that's recommended? I find the printed word much easier to follow, especially when looking at a screen trying to figure out a new piece of S/W. And with books, of course, you can write in the margin if that's your way, acts as a great aide-memoire for me.

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Certainly will Wyck, I'll report back when I get into the flow.

 

I must say the review linked ( http://www.filmscanner.info/en/FilmscannerTestberichte.html ) doesn't paint a rosy picture, but this review ( https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/267131-plustek-scanners-and-silverfast-8-software/ ) is more upbeat.

 

This just goes to show how subjective these things can be.  I'm looking forward to seeing the results as I am not happy with my current workflow, hence my scanner research too. 

 

Be interested to hear about what sharpening if any is applied after scanning.  I have just purchased the book Adam referred to in the I Like Film thread, Image Sharpening (Fraser and Schewe) but have yet to find time to look at it.

 

I must get more organised and start to post in the I Like Film thread - amazing work there.

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