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MMI vs MMII Hypothetical


Likaleica

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After using the MM1, I was initially quite disappointed with the M246 files, and it took me a while to figure out how to process them. Once I got there, the M246 was great. Better high ISO, quieter, larger buffer, etc. But I never fell in love with it so it was sold.

 

A while back, I bought another MM1....a low mileage example which I do love. It's annoyingly slow sometimes, the small display is virtually useless, and I worry about the CCD corrosion issue as it's humid here in Hong Kong, but the camera body feels neat in the hand, it's beautiful too, and the files have a quality like no other. A special day for me now, is to go out walking all day just the MM1 and a spare battery. No shoulder bag, no phone, just the simple and slightly archaic MM1.

 

So....if you asked me to choose a freebie new one, I'd choose the MM1 in a heartbeat. It's that special.

I just looked at your website.  Wow.  Powerful.

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After having seen Jakob de Boers phantastic photos out of his MM262 (MMII) at the Leica gallery during the last Photokina at Cologne, the question whether MM240 (MMI) or MM262 (MMII) deliver a better picture quality seems to be somewhat academically for us photoamateurs.

Enjoy the type of MM you own.

In a new purchase I would always recommend the MM262, because of the potentially corrosive sensor of the MM240.

Maybe it is also worthwhile to wait for an MM10?

So I will do and use my M8.2 reinforced for black and white photos.

You have your M iterations confused. The MM1 is based on the M9 platform. The M246 (MM2) is derived from the M240, as is the M262, which is essentially an M240 without LV or video.

 

Jeff

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MM1 due to the CCD sensor, which in my opinion produces files that are more film like, and more beautiful, than any digital camera I've used--a list that includes around 25 camera bodies from Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Epson, Sony and Leica. The MM1 rules in my book.

Edited by fotografr
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I own and use both versions of the Monochrom.  They're both great cameras.  They share far more than they differ.

 

I like the files in the original MM a tiny bit more.  Not sure why.  But the M246 is a much better camera platform, in pretty much every respect.  I usually find myself reaching for it, versus the MM... probably on the order of 60 or 70 percent of the time.

 

A month ago I would have said you can't go wrong with either.  Now, with Leica's change of policy regarding sensor replacement in the original MM... that wildcard now enters the picture.  All things considered, I'd probably go with the M246 unless an equally mint version of the MM with the sensor already replaced (with the updated sensor, not the original type) was found.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would buy the MM1

 

The MM1 has become a classic. Partly because it was the first monochrom, and partly as it has the CCD sensor 'character' that is no longer available new. Buying the MM1 is a bit like buying a film camera. Well and truly superseded, but the reason for the purchase is not for the new technology but for the joy of the machine as is.

 

Buying the MM2 means the eventual temptation to buy the MM3, MM4 etc. This is fine if new technology is what you are seeking.

 

For myself, I decided against an M10 and instead repurchased an MM1 with replaced sensor. Much cheaper and a more of a long term 'investment'. (Having an SL to feed my new technology itch helped as well).

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Buying the MM1 is a bit like buying a film camera. Well and truly superseded, but the reason for the purchase is not for the new technology but for the joy of the machine as is.

 

 

 

True to an extent; an M2/3/4 should continue to operate late into the 21st century (?and beyond) so long as film remains available and parts can be had (though laser printing may extend that window further along). The M9(M)? The flawed original sensor's lifespan is pretty much done but luckily replaceable, unlike the M8 and its LCD. 

 

Only a matter of time before another critical and irreplaceable electronic component fails en masse.  

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I would buy the MM1

 

The MM1 has become a classic. Partly because it was the first monochrom, and partly as it has the CCD sensor 'character' that is no longer available new. Buying the MM1 is a bit like buying a film camera. Well and truly superseded, but the reason for the purchase is not for the new technology but for the joy of the machine as is.

 

Buying the MM2 means the eventual temptation to buy the MM3, MM4 etc. This is fine if new technology is what you are seeking.

 

For myself, I decided against an M10 and instead repurchased an MM1 with replaced sensor. Much cheaper and a more of a long term 'investment'. (Having an SL to feed my new technology itch helped as well).

 

I disagree. I bought the M246 and have no plans on buying a new version down the line. This is my digital "film" camera and for me it's perfect. I would never buy the original Monochrom and I dare say that the person behind the camera is the one responsible for any character in the final photo - not the camera.

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MMI, I don't know the M246, but I just can't part of my MMI, owning an M10 also. Main reason is I can't get that clarity and micro-contrast with my M10, how beautiful the B&W conversions and the grain/noise in higher ISO's can be there.

Edited by otto.f
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Why wouldn't you buy an MM1? 

 

Since I started this thread I bought a barely used MM1, with new sensor recently replaced in Wetzlar with CLA, from a real gentleman in the UK and couldn't be happier.  I waited until the right one came along, kind of like finding a spouse.  

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Why wouldn't you buy an MM1? 

 

Because you cannot buy it new as it's not in production. Hence I would not benefit from a guarantee for very long. I also think it would inhabit a certain risk to buy a camera not knowing what it has gone through - which may represent costly repair bills further down the road. I also never buy expensive things second hand. Maybe I just relish the feeling of or smell of new car or a wrist watch with no marks. Certainly, the smell of new interior will fade away and the watch will be scratched, but it happened because of me and no one else.

 

The low light capabilities are supposed to be better and the resolution as well. Finally, I don't think my photos as an end result would benefit from the MMI as much as they would with the M246. It just suits the way I like my photos. Although there are many really wonderful photos in in the MMI photography thread I suspect it's more down to the person behind the camera rather than the camera itself. I presume - rightly or wrongly, that you could do more or less the same "analogue" expression with the M246.

 

Did I say I really love the 246?

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  • 2 weeks later...

MM1 for me. There's a distinct look to the images produced with a CCD that I would characterize as more film like. Of you're into the super smooth look of a high quality digital image, the M246 is your best choice. I prefer images with more texture.

 

With regard to increased high ISO, I came from the film era where 1600 was my upper limit for a long time and eventually 3200. I honestly can't imagine being in a situation where I'd feel disadvantaged by only being able to go to 5000 ISO.

 

I recently latched onto an MM1 with only 72 shutter clicks. The sensor is now being replaced and when I get it back it should be like having a brand new camera in my hands. I will use it and love it until either I die or it does.

Edited by fotografr
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MM-1 without a doubt. 

 

BTW, apparently there will NOT be a new Monochrome ... although the Facebook post from Dr. Kaufmann is a bit confusing ... no Monochrome, or no AF Monochrome? When did AF and M come together in LaLaLeicaLand?  

 

"There will not be a AF M Monochrome nor an interchangeable lens version Q (both which I was hoping to have) said Dr Andreas H Kaufmann, Chairman of the Supervisory Board, Leica Camera. Sad:("

 

- Marc

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MM-1 without a doubt. 

 

BTW, apparently there will NOT be a new Monochrome ... although the Facebook post from Dr. Kaufmann is a bit confusing ... no Monochrome, or no AF Monochrome? When did AF and M come together in LaLaLeicaLand?  

 

"There will not be a AF M Monochrome nor an interchangeable lens version Q (both which I was hoping to have) said Dr Andreas H Kaufmann, Chairman of the Supervisory Board, Leica Camera. Sad:("

 

- Marc

 

I saw that post, Marc.  Not sure Dr. Kaufmann's comment meant no new Monochrom.  Just no AF Monochrom...

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So I've progressively upgraded from M9 to M240 to M10 with no regrets.

Nothing to date has tempted me to part with the Monochrome v1 for all of the reasons mentioned previously.

 

However, depending on the quality of the output I would consider an M10M. Form factor, LV &EVF, standardization of controls and batteries, and no high-iso banding would be tempting.

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The low light capabilities are supposed to be better and the resolution as well. Finally, I don't think my photos as an end result would benefit from the MMI as much as they would with the M246. It just suits the way I like my photos. Although there are many really wonderful photos in in the MMI photography thread I suspect it's more down to the person behind the camera rather than the camera itself. I presume - rightly or wrongly, that you could do more or less the same "analogue" expression with the M246.

 

Did I say I really love the 246?

 

 

 

I second your remarks here where you say that "I suspect it's more down to the person behind the camera rather than the camera itself."​, so right and so often blown-by in the never ending quest for the newest and shiniest "improved" piece of kit, whatever the marque might be. Gone it seems are the days when you bought a Leica or other well made camera and you would expect it to work for you for decades. When the tool became so familiar that you tended to concentrate on refining your imagining skills rather than being diverted by now prevalent cycle of "new gear angst".....

 

A few years ago I conducted a week long photography course in the South of France, all the "students/participants" showed up each with thousands of dollars of cameras and lenses around their necks and packed away in equally expensive bags, really intimidating.

So after the first morning assignment where I had to go through at least 500 images from each of them I decided to make a change for the next day's "lesson" and when everyone arrived we went through the previous day's work as best I could given the volume of images then told them that on this next assignment they were to leave their own gear at class because for this day I would supply their cameras...........I gave each of them a disposable cardboard snapshot film camera, showed them how it worked, warned them that they had only 20 odd shots and sent them on their way. 

 

Oddly, and to most of the participants surprise when we got the prints back from the local 1hr process shop, as an instruction it was a complete success, everyone said that knowing that they only had such a limited number of exposures they could make really concentrated their minds as to what they shot and when they would release the shutter, especially as the roll neared it's end. The images themselves weren't all nasty either, the crappy plastic lenses gave off some really great looking flare and distortion and frankly a lot of the images proved to be "keepers".

 

So again yes, to your point Mr Fjeld, most of the time it's the "person behind the camera rather than the camera itself"  that makes the work, not the gear no matter how shinny, new and expensive it might be and a point well drilled home by some of the user's images on the MM1 forum come to that.

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The low light capabilities are supposed to be better and the resolution as well. Finally, I don't think my photos as an end result would benefit from the MMI as much as they would with the M246. It just suits the way I like my photos. Although there are many really wonderful photos in in the MMI photography thread I suspect it's more down to the person behind the camera rather than the camera itself. I presume - rightly or wrongly, that you could do more or less the same "analogue" expression with the M246.

 

Did I say I really love the 246?

 

 

 

I second your remarks here where you say that "I suspect it's more down to the person behind the camera rather than the camera itself."​, so right and so often blown-by in the never ending quest for the newest and shiniest "improved" piece of kit, whatever the marque might be. Gone it seems are the days when you bought a Leica or other well made camera and you would expect it to work for you for decades. When the tool became so familiar that you tended to concentrate on refining your imagining skills rather than being diverted by now prevalent cycle of "new gear angst".....

 

A few years ago I conducted a week long photography course in the South of France, all the "students/participants" showed up each with thousands of dollars of cameras and lenses around their necks and packed away in equally expensive bags, really intimidating.

So after the first morning assignment where I had to go through at least 500 images from each of them I decided to make a change for the next day's "lesson" and when everyone arrived we went through the previous day's work as best I could given the volume of images then told them that on this next assignment they were to leave their own gear at class because for this day I would supply their cameras...........I gave each of them a disposable cardboard snapshot film camera, showed them how it worked, warned them that they had only 20 odd shots and sent them on their way. 

 

Oddly, and to most of the participants surprise when we got the prints back from the local 1hr process shop, as an instruction it was a complete success, everyone said that knowing that they only had such a limited number of exposures they could make really concentrated their minds as to what they shot and when they would release the shutter, especially as the roll neared it's end. The images themselves weren't all nasty either, the crappy plastic lenses gave off some really great looking flare and distortion and frankly a lot of the images proved to be "keepers".

 

So again yes, to your point Mr Fjeld, most of the time it's the "person behind the camera rather than the camera itself"  that makes the work, not the gear no matter how shinny, new and expensive it might be and a point well drilled home by some of the user's images on the MM1 forum come to that.

 

 

I'm in total agreement with you Peter and the story from your photography course is brilliant! I also come from film photography back in the eighties and constantly try and remind myself of being economic with my release button. Still I after a full day I often come home with more than a hundred or so photographies - most of them meh - but maybe three or four which makes my heart beat when I look at them. And unless the light is particularly difficult I usually don't look at the display.

 

A Leica, being such a substantial investment, was a very thorough decision for me. It's probably going to be the only Leica camera I will own but I was in no doubt it had to be the Monochrom rather then an M240. If I had made the purchase earlier it would have been the MM as the 246 wasn't presented to the market yet and I would probably be just as happy with that one.

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