Visoflex 020 on M10?

[Nordvik]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Does the Visoflex 020 have 10 x magnifier? (and what does it mean? 10 x EVF og 10x the sensor?) I can not find any information on that either in any technical data.

[Nordvik]

PS: I want to know how the 020 compare to other EVF in technical data. I know the resolution for the screen (2,37MP), but nothing else.

[lucerne]

Nordvik.

the 020 visoflex actually doesn’t magnify anything.   The 020 simply displays what the rear lcd screen is showing. (Live view).   It is a direct electronic display of what would appear on the camera rear screen.  That means it allows your wide or long lenses which have no equivalent frame lines on the optical viewfinder on an M10, to be viewed in full.

the magnification feature is a software solution built into the display in the camera and exists even if you have no Visoflex. Without the 020 Visoflex You can set the camera to to display a 5 or 10 times (the sensor) magnified view of the image on the rear screen.  It’s triggered by the focus ring on lenses.   That image comes straight from the sensor.  With the 020 visoflex, the image will display on the visoflex.  The action of the visoflex is set in the menu of the camera.   There are no visoflex settings on the device itself except for a diopter adjustment and the ability to angle the viewfinder. 

14 hours ago, Nordvik said:

Does the Visoflex 020 have 10 x magnifier? (and what does it mean? 10 x EVF og 10x the sensor?) I can not find any information on that either in any technical data.

heres a good review.

http://jeffmellody.com/blog/2018/6/5/leica-visoflex-review-m10-viewfinder

there are no other EVF devices that will fit the M10, so there is nothing to compare it with.  It does work very well.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by lucerne
Clarity

[Keith_W]

On 11/30/2018 at 11:59 AM, lucerne said:

there are no other EVF devices that will fit the M10, so there is nothing to compare it with.  It does work very well.

Yes, that is true. However, you can compare the 020 EVF to others, notably the SL, CL, and Sony A7 series. It is dramatically inferior to all those other EVF's. It is noticeably grainy and it lags when you move the camera. For its price, it is unsatisfactory. I hope Leica releases a new and better EVF. 

Some time ago I did a write-up of my Visioflex 020: 

 

[Nordvik]

"It is noticeably grainy"

Do you mean the resolution is too low? 2,4MP is the same as Sony A7iii (A7Riii and A9 have 3,7MP).

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Keith_W said:

Yes, that is true. However, you can compare the 020 EVF to others, notably the SL, CL, and Sony A7 series. It is dramatically inferior to all those other EVF's. It is noticeably grainy and it lags when you move the camera. For its price, it is unsatisfactory. I hope Leica releases a new and better EVF. 

Some time ago I did a write-up of my Visioflex 020: 

 

All of the EVFs you mention will deteriorate in low light and exhibit "jumpy" behaviour on movement as well.

Having said that, we should never forget that the M10 (or any other M) is designed around its optical viewfinder and that any Visoflex is never meant to be more than an auxiliary aid.

If one wants to have a camera that is primarily an EVF one, one should use an EVF camera, just like one had to use a Leica R as opposed to the limited Visoflex3 in the past.

 

Nice write-up, BTW.

[Nordvik]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

How about that magnification?

I used my phone to make some more comparisons. First IIIc:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Nordvik]

Ricoh KR-10 Super, my first SLR:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Nordvik]

M10 optical viewfinder:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Nordvik]

M10 with electronic viewfinder (I used a 50mm Zeiss Planar that is wider than the 50mm Rikenon):

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Nordvik]

The optical Visoflex with a 135mm and a 90 degree viewfinder:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Nordvik]

Same, with a 5 x viewfinder:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Keith_W]

4 hours ago, Nordvik said:

"It is noticeably grainy"

Do you mean the resolution is too low? 2,4MP is the same as Sony A7iii (A7Riii and A9 have 3,7MP).

24 MP is what the sensor captures. However, what the Visioflex 020 displays is only 3.7MP. Perhaps you are correct in that the resolution of the 020 is the same as the Sony A7 series. I am only going on my subjective memory of what the EVF on my A7S2 was like before I sold it. I seem to remember that even that was better than the Visioflex 020. 

[Keith_W]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

All of the EVFs you mention will deteriorate in low light and exhibit "jumpy" behaviour on movement as well.

Having said that, we should never forget that the M10 (or any other M) is designed around its optical viewfinder and that any Visoflex is never meant to be more than an auxiliary aid.

If one wants to have a camera that is primarily an EVF one, one should use an EVF camera, just like one had to use a Leica R as opposed to the limited Visoflex3 in the past.

 

Nice write-up, BTW.

Thank you Jaap. When I use some lenses, the Visioflex 020 becomes my primary focusing device instead of an auxillary aid. Example, it is very difficult to focus and frame properly with my newly acquired 90 APO-Summicron if I use the rangefinder. With the Visioflex, it is a cinch. OTOH my 21 Summilux is the opposite. I can obtain focus more reliably with the rangefinder, and then I use the Visioflex to frame. Either way, I find the Visioflex to be an essential tool such that it sits on my hotshoe close to 100% of the time. 

Oh yeah, one more thing. The exposure preview you get on the Visioflex is very, very, very, very, very, very, VERY close to what you will see when you open up the file in Lightroom. I think it is far more reliable than that rather basic "< O >" that you get with the rangefinder. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Keith_W

[jdlaing]

33 minutes ago, Keith_W said:

Thank you Jaap. When I use some lenses, the Visioflex 020 becomes my primary focusing device instead of an auxillary aid. Example, it is very difficult to focus and frame properly with my newly acquired 90 APO-Summicron if I use the rangefinder. With the Visioflex, it is a cinch. OTOH my 21 Summilux is the opposite. I can obtain focus more reliably with the rangefinder, and then I use the Visioflex to frame. Either way, I find the Visioflex to be an essential tool such that it sits on my hotshoe close to 100% of the time. 

Oh yeah, one more thing. The exposure preview you get on the Visioflex is very, very, very, very, very, very, VERY close to what you will see when you open up the file in Lightroom. I think it is far more reliable than that rather basic "< O >" that you get with the rangefinder. 

Please don’t take this the wrong way. It is not meant to be condescending or rude in any way.

Youre using the wrong camera.

[jaapv]

I've used Summicron 90 lenses for decades, also on M8 (remember the focus difficulty of that format?) and M9. I cannot relate to  "very difficult" I fear. But then, I have been using rangefinders since 1976... Even theoretically the RF method should be slightly superior to the EVF at 90 mm, the tipping point being somewhere around 105 mm with the M10 viewfinder.

As to exposure preview, the only aid I trust, both in a camera -which presupposes an EVF I admit - and in postprocessing is the histogram. Eyeballing it can be way off in my experience. Lightroom/ACR nearly always needs a correction.

[DesertHorse]

At age 73 I'm new to Leica.  Can anyone please tell me if the Visoflex 020 works when using Zeiss lenses?  Thanks for any help.

[strohscw]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb DesertHorse:

At age 73 I'm new to Leica.  Can anyone please tell me if the Visoflex 020 works when using Zeiss lenses?  Thanks for any help.

Yes it works also with other Lenses. Press the LiveView button and You will see what the sensor sees in Your Visoflex.

[mmx_2]

3 hours ago, DesertHorse said:

At age 73 I'm new to Leica.  Can anyone please tell me if the Visoflex 020 works when using Zeiss lenses?  Thanks for any help.

It works but you might have to turn off automatic lens detection, otherwise you will get "no lens mounted error" hen you press the live view button.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Tailwagger]

The M10-R implementation looks far better to my eye  and a noticeable improvement over the original. Less noise overall and when zoomed.  Not an SL2 mind you, but a discernible improvement. This makes sense in retrospect, given the display is just that. It only can show what the sensor is feeding it. The data pixel count have risen from ~10% of native resolution to right around half that, which presumably makes filling the screen at 10x easier.  On the downside, where the M240 black period was interminable, the M10 virtually unnoticeable, the 10-R somewhere in between.

To prove this to myself, sitting on the couch here at 6:30 AM, I took a simple photo of my living room window and used the EVF to focus on its screen.

ISO 500, f2 1/45" 50mm Summilux, hand held, 6.55 decades old hands and eyes.  SooC. 

2k by 2k  crop, only attempt

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited July 24, 2020 by Tailwagger