Leica Ends Free Sensor Replacement for M9/Monochrom Bodies

[Go Figure]

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What I can safely say is that:

 

"The replacement sensor shows worse banding

than the original !"

 

_____________________________________________________

 

My 11 year old M8 bodies have better sensors ... go figure ! 

[erl]

I trust that you have immediately addressed this observation direct to the source (repairer).

 

As an aside, banding can be function of several things, eg. High ISO, underexposure.

Have you checked the effect at base ISO and correct exposure. Just asking, not trying to be critical of your technique.

 

Neither of my 11 yr old M8's have sensors as good as my M9, before or after sensor replacement. That is how it should be.

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[Go Figure]

Contrary to public believe including mine , this M9 was "repaired" in the USA NOT SOLMS 

and as initially told !

  ... so it went straight back there as the RF was misaligned when I got it back after 4+ months.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________

 

I will have to learn to live with the M9 as there is not going to be another digital M with optical frame lines 

and with the new 240 and 10 you can't even tape over the window to get rid of them or dim them 

or make the dreaded 75 frame go away. 

________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I actually had a hands on with the SL and it's looking like a valid option for a possibly extended future with the brand

at least no glaring red or white frame lines. Funny how the Sl is more purist then the M now .... go figure 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Mark Ebert

[jaapv]

What I can safely say is that:

 

"The replacement sensor shows worse banding

than the original !"

 

Mine doesn't....

[Go Figure]

I trust that you have immediately addressed this observation direct to the source (repairer).

 

As an aside, banding can be function of several things, eg. High ISO, underexposure.

Have you checked the effect at base ISO and correct exposure. Just asking, not trying to be critical of your technique.

 

Neither of my 11 yr old M8's have sensors as good as my M9, before or after sensor replacement. That is how it should be.

Thank you for your reply!

I only shoot in base ISO and the M9 sensor is not as tolerant as the M8's when it comes to pushing.

Sensor lines show up at least 0.7 - 1stop earlier.

Highlights burn out earlier too and don't seem to be as recoverable either - especially when you leave base ISO.

True the M9 sensor might appear better to the average shooter when using higher ISO and compared to the M8

but even in bad light indoors I never use it on the M8.

What puzzled me ...

... is that when I apply the same Mojo to the new sensor I get sensor lines on a regular basis

to the point where I can't use it anymore.

I'll give it another try for the aforementioned reasons

as I did not have enough time to run it through all the gears ... but I will when it comes back ( min 2 weeks they said ).

[Go Figure]

Mine doesn't....

you probably got an earlier stock sensor ... not what they put in cameras in the US !

[jaapv]

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I am not sure whether there are different sensors around. - in fact, I think it is rather unlikely. All I can say is that mine  -dating from June- is as good or better than the original one. I cannot see any excessive banding in comparison either.

[Go Figure]

I am not sure whether there are different sensors around. - in fact, I think it is rather unlikely. All I can say is that mine is as good or better than the original one. I cannot see any excessive banding in comparison either.

when and where did you have it replaced ?

[Denys]

After Leica reneged on their original plan of free sensor replacement I personally will never buy another new digital Leica camera. Irrelevant I know in the big picture and the world will still keep turning but they lost me as a customer.

 

After 2M9's M9P and Monochrom, M240 and M262, they won't get any more of my money.

 

I understand your logic Paul. As far as the ‘big picture’ is concerned, you won’t be alone.. ..and there are people who paid high for cameras with first-generation sensors on the basis of Leica’s commitment for free repair.. ..dealers that must slash their prices for those original sensored bodies. Hard to find any winners. The U-turn wasn’t even explained very well. Pity..

[pedaes]

After Leica reneged on their original plan of free sensor replacement I personally will never buy another new digital Leica camera. Irrelevant I know in the big picture and the world will still keep turning but they lost me as a customer.

 

After 2M9's M9P and Monochrom, M240 and M262, they won't get any more of my money.

 

Paul, i have empathy with your possition, and I admire and respect you for it. I was lucky to have my M9 sensor replaced (because of a crack) with the new/new sensor before the policy change. It is a difficult one, as I can see the original offer was perhaps unrealistic but was never the less made. On the other hand, I have a lot invested in Leica lenses that I enjoy using, and have somewhat committed to 'digital' having dismantled the darkroom. I took the pragmatic view of what will be will be, and will not take your moral high ground stance as in my heart I would regret doing so. You are certainly making quite a sacrifice as the M10 is superb, although I still enjoy the M9, and there will presumably be more to come. Life is short, and I guess we do what we are comfortable with, but do not feel it wrong to have a change of heart at any time as you are the only one affected. 

[TomB_tx]

Companies are all dependent on external suppliers for components, and as technology "advances" all electronic components go obsolete and become unavailable. The M6TTL meter for example is no longer repairable if the circuit board fails, as with the M8 LCD. Repairing the meter on any camera with a CdS or older cell is barely possible now. I am amazed that Leica not only replaced the sensor on my 7+ year-old M9, but didn't charge me for it. After all, I had 7 years of solid service with it before the first signs of corrosion showed up. I hardly consider it a defect when a product lasts 7 years. Most electronics now are trashable after 7 years.

I was more upset when Leica dumped the R series, but i realize such decisions must be made for a company to stay in business. If they had tried to keep the R going they would likely have folded up shop long ago. 

As the M9 replacements go on, the parts volume will taper off, and at some point it becomes impossible to get the supplier to produce the smaller number needed. I again think they made a wise, if unpopular, decision to keep the company viable. At least now we have the possibility of buying new Leicas in another 7 years.

[onelensman]

Having only recently stumbled on this discussion of Leica's cessation of free replacement of corroded CCD sensors, I am completely devastated by this revelation. I have been happily using a 2011 M9 body with no apparent issues although I had been aware of the problems of cracked and corroded sensors experienced by other owners from about 2014. Occasionally I would closely examine pictures from my camera for unusual marks that might indicate sensor problems, the last time I recall was earlier this year, 2017, and the result was blemish free images. I complacently believed Leica's commitment to replacing for free faulty sensors on all affected cameras, so felt reassured that any future sensor fault would be dealt with as promised, given that this issue originates in the design and production of these components.

After reading this thread and the Leica online announcement in May of the ending of the free replacement scheme, I rechecked my M9 latest images and was shocked to find telltale spots with white halos indicating sensor corrosion. I like many other users of Leica M cameras, film and digital, just get on with shooting photographs and pay some or little attention to technical equipment arguments. So the Leica M9/MM/ME owners who have had sensors replaced may be the tip of a large iceberg, to coin a phrase.

Leica cameras are precision tools, not playthings, and should be fit for purpose. Manufacturing faults in high end equipment should not be paid for by the end user. This series of Leica M digital cameras might go down in the history of photographic equipment as a legendary 'dud' from a legendary brand betraying its historic reputation.

[Adrian Lord]

 

 

Far too many issues of unreliability for the price that they charge.

 

This is the real nub of the issue and is doomed to always be in the electronic era.

 

They should perhaps consider dropping the relative prices of the bodies to reflect the fact that they are technically obsolete as soon as they hit the shops and serviceably obsolete after 7 years. No real hope of that ever happening though, especially with Leica now positioning itself as a sort of uber-brand Ferrari or Bentley of cameras.

 

Indeed while we are on the subject of cars, it is failing electronics that turns modern cars into scrap after a decade (just like cameras), even though the engines are perfectly fine.

 

 

I think one does well to remember that we really buy Leica for the lenses, not the bodies. That way I can stay vaguely sane and sanguine.

[FrozenInTime]

This is the real nub of the issue and is doomed to always be in the electronic era.

 ...

Indeed while we are on the subject of cars, it is failing electronics that turns modern cars into scrap after a decade (just like cameras), even though the engines are perfectly fine.

 

The fine print at the end of the Smart car specifications ( Mercedes - Daimler ) say ‘guaranteed mobility’ for 20 years.

It would be interesting to see how that plays out ... assuming we can still buy petrol and that 70 year old drivers are allowed to be in control of a vehicle ( non autonomous vehicle ).

[jdlaing]

Well, on the other hand a warranty is given for manufacturer defects. In Leica’s case. The M-9 replacement went well beyond that to five years and longer in some cases. It, at the time, was an unknown issue until discovered. A manufacturer is only responsible and liable to honor the warranty. That’s what a warranty is.

 

The fact that they went above and beyond keeps my faith in Leica.

[jaapv]

It seems to been have lost in the discussion that Leica is still replacing sensors with a 50% discount on the real cost.(for the M9, I know nothing about the S situation) For a camera that has been in use for up to eight years that is not really unreasonable. Cameras with sensors younger than five years are still being repaired without charge. And there is an upgrade scheme. Like everybody else I would have preferred an indefinite replacement scheme, but I can accept that a company, having exceeded the legal guaranty requirements by a fair margin, feels it necessary to draw a line in the sand at some point.

The main gripe I have was the short span between the announcement of the decision and the cut-off date.

[onelensman]

The relevant point particularly to those Leica CCD M users blithely shooting away unaware of the ticking time bomb of a potentially destructive degradation of their camera sensors due to a fundamental flaw in the materials used in the cover glass of this most crucial of components. It is not to do with random inconsistencies in the manufacturing process, or the manner in which the equipment is used, or 'just one of those things' covered by warranty. On the evidence so far there appears to be a consistent inevitability of the exact same physical fault manifesting itself in this series of M camera bodies whether early or later on in their working lives. This problem may be inbuilt into every camera body with original sensor and not related to ageing electronics or wear and tear. Simply put Leica have been selling a high end, high price product range with an embedded critical defect which they themselves acknowledged - 'In December 2014, Leica officially acknowledged the CCD sensor corrosion issue present on many M9, M9-P, M Monochrom and M-E camera bodies'.

Therefore I am of the opinion that for the company to maintain its reputation and for its customers' perception of integrity the cutoff date could have been 5 years on from this announcement date to at least give those innocent owners who paid a substantial sum to buy into the Leica legend some chance of redress when they experience the rude awakening!

[adan]

I guess my take is that anyone going through life "blithely...unaware" or feeling "safe in the knowledge" is setting themselves up for a fall.

 

Synonyms could well be "not paying attention" or "complacent." Which are not virtues in the 21st century and the digital age. One is free to choose to do so, but there may be consequences. Indeed, a "rude awakening" - but whose fault is that?

 

Leica gave 3 months warning of this deadline for free replacement - it was out there on the Web for anyone to see, and take action accordingly.

 

Leica has said, essentially, that any full-frame CCD Leica is covered for sensor failure for 5 years after date of original purchase: for the M9, discontinued at the arrival of the M240 in 9/2012, that means 9/2017. For the M-E or Monochrom, a bit later. Five years is a perfectly reasonable expectation of life for a digital device* - no matter who makes it or what the price. If I get more than that (and I often do), I consider myself lucky, whether it is a computer, scanner, printer, or digital camera. It is the reality on which digital purchases should be made and budgeted.

 

As it happens, my M9 made it to 7 years before the first (minimal) evidence of corrosion started to show, and made it to 2 months short of 8 years before the deadline suggested I get it fixed. I beat the odds.

___________________

 

*U.S. Internal Revenue allows 5 years to depreciate computers and peripherals.

[jdlaing]

I guess my take is that anyone going through life "blithely...unaware" or feeling "safe in the knowledge" is setting themselves up for a fall.

 

Synonyms could well be "not paying attention" or "complacent." Which are not virtues in the 21st century and the digital age. One is free to choose to do so, but there may be consequences. Indeed, a "rude awakening" - but whose fault is that?

 

Leica gave 3 months warning of this deadline for free replacement - it was out there on the Web for anyone to see, and take action accordingly.

 

Leica has said, essentially, that any full-frame CCD Leica is covered for sensor failure for 5 years after date of original purchase: for the M9, discontinued at the arrival of the M240 in 9/2012, that means 9/2017. For the M-E or Monochrom, a bit later. Five years is a perfectly reasonable expectation of life for a digital device* - no matter who makes it or what the price. If I get more than that (and I often do), I consider myself lucky, whether it is a computer, scanner, printer, or digital camera. It is the reality on which digital purchases should be made and budgeted.

 

As it happens, my M9 made it to 7 years before the first (minimal) evidence of corrosion started to show, and made it to 2 months short of 8 years before the deadline suggested I get it fixed. I beat the odds.

___________________

 

*U.S. Internal Revenue allows 5 years to depreciate computers and peripherals.

Well put and correct.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pedaes]

The relevant point particularly to those Leica CCD M users blithely shooting away unaware of the ticking time bomb of a potentially destructive degradation of their camera sensors due to a fundamental flaw in the materials used in the cover glass of this most crucial of components. It is not to do with random inconsistencies in the manufacturing process, or the manner in which the equipment is used, or 'just one of those things' covered by warranty.

"The relevant point" is what?