Noctilux out of focus

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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I have just purchased a F1.0 Noctilux in a near mint condition from a UK Leica dealer. The lens was delivered well packaged with no signs of damage. I have mounted it on my M262 and M246, I have taken photos at different apertures and distances and it is completely out of focus. I put the EVF on my M246 and the photos using the EVF are in focus. At a distance of 5 feet at F2.8 the lens is back focusing by 8 inches. I have a number of other M lenses and have no problem with their focus.

    I phoned the dealer to say that the lens was out of focus. Before I was allowed to explain my reasons I was told that "all our lenses are checked before we send them out, your camera is at fault", I explained my findings, to which he replied that "if the lens is producing in focus photos through the EVF it is clear that there is not  a problem with the lens". He has agreed to take the lens back to "check it over".

   I have bought a lot of Leica lenses and bodies from this dealer over the years , last month I bought a used M135 F3.4 and a M21mm F3.4 and they have sold a lot of my gear on commission . I have always had a very good relationship otherwise I would not go back to them. My guess is that the lens was outwardly in such good condition that it was not tested, but it is their attitude right from the start that the customer is wrong that has really upset me. I have owned a F1 Noctilux before and used it successfully on a M9 but it had very stiff focusing, even after it had been sent to Germany to be serviced, so I sold it.

   Is the dealer correct in stating if the lens is in focus through the EVF the camera is at fault ? I have 14 M lenses going from my 50mm rigid made in 1959 up to 50mm Apo, 35mm Fle and 90&75 F2 asph modern day lenses, my eyesight is still good and I very rarely use the EVF. I very rarely get out of focus shots .

  I wish to reject the lens and will not accept it back even if it is sent to Germany to be repaired, my feeling is that like my last one it is a bad copy and probably the reason that it is still in such good condition on the outside.

  What would you guys say to this dealer if they will not accept that the lens is faulty.

 

The problem is the camera (rangefinder needs adjusting ) 

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

 

I will think about this today but will only accept the lens back if it has been to Germany. My other lens took about 3 months turnaround which is not good.

 

thanks

 

Rupert

 

I think you are asking a lot for the dealer of a SECOND HAND lens to have to pay to send it back to Germany..............if it takes a perfect good picture with the IVF then I suggest you send the body and lens to Leica and have them calibrate them both

 

Neil

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[jaapv]

Neil, a good dealer will do this witout question. Example : I bought an Elmarit-M   90 from Meister. The lens appeared to be in excellent condition. I sent it to Leica for coding and to my dismay they found something wrong with it  that would cost me over 600Euro. I notified Meister and they told me to leave it with them . Three weeks later the lens returned as new - cost to me - zero. I did not even have to pay for the coding.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Neil, a good dealer will do this witout question. Example : I bought an Elmarit-M   90 from Meister. The lens appeared to be in excellent condition. I sent it to Leica for coding and to my dismay they found something wrong with it  that would cost me over 600Euro. I notified Meister and they told me to leave it with them . Three weeks later the lens returned as new - cost to me - zero. I did not even have to pay for the coding.

 

Jaapv

The problem is the RF not the lens. The guy needs to send both the camera and lens back to Berlin and have them calibrated together..........

[jdlaing]

Jaapv

The problem is the RF not the lens. The guy needs to send both the camera and lens back to Berlin and have them calibrated together..........

It doesn't quite work "together".

 

Each is calibrated separately to a tolerance.

Sending both in for calibration saves time ensuring they get the right one, the one that was off, instead of sending them on separate trips. In other words the lens is not calibrated to a specific camera and vice versa.

[Lord Lucan]

An interesting article here about Noctilux.

[Jeff S]

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Jaapv

The problem is the RF not the lens. The guy needs to send both the camera and lens back to Berlin and have them calibrated together..........

Neil, you have no basis to conclude this, And as JD correctly notes, the lens and body are calibrated separately. And unless the sensor is improperly installed (highly unlikely), the EVF will of course show a focused image; it's taken off the sensor. One would need to check other lenses using the RF to find any inconsistencies to better determine if the problem is the body or the lens, and it seems he did just that. Leica likes to have body and lenses to avoid back and forth.

 

Rather ironic coming from you, since you sold your M sfter having focusing issues, and admitted that you never checked focus calibration. Kind of like your comment today on SL zooms, which you've never tested.

 

Jeff

Edited May 19, 2017 by Jeff S

[Rupert Greenwell]

Morning all !  I am the OP, just some facts, the RF of my M262, M246 and recently sold M240 are fine, I have a collection of about 15 M lenses from 1959 to present day, all my lenses work fine on these bodies, I have also owned M9 and MM1 plus various M film bodies, again no problem. I have used Leica rangefinders since 1981 and I am aware of both bodies and lenses needing calibrating from time to time.

     My eyesight is quite good and sometimes if I miss focus it is my fault, I test my lenses photographing my dogs faces, if their whiskers are in focus that is good enough for me. I have owned a M 35mm F1.4 asph which is known for back focussing in some cases, mine back focussed by about 2inches , doing the same test on this Noctilux, the lens back focusses by 8 inches.

    I have owned a F1 Noctilux before and got on well with it on a M9 and MM1, sold it for a 75mm F1.4 and now I have decided to have a Noctilux again. I have returned the lens and will exchange it for a 50mm F0.95.

    I am at home this morning awaiting the arrival of my new M10, this is very unexpected but the dealer informs me that he can't contact those on the list before me and so I have been bumped up which is great, I was expecting a further two month wait, so hope for those who genuinely want a M10 the wait might not be as long as first feared.

[jaapv]

Jaapv

The problem is the RF not the lens. The guy needs to send both the camera and lens back to Berlin and have them calibrated together..........

I'm not sure what Berlin has to do  with the topic, nor calibrating the body??? The question is whether the lens should be rejected or returned for adjustment.

[SilentShutter]

He probably meant not Berlin because its the capital of Germany

try Leica Camera AG Customer Care Am Leitz-Park 5 35578 Wetzlar

which is the much better option 

 

By the way in my opinion it is the dealers care not to sell any defocused lens at all

even when he claimed to sell controlled and working gear right ?

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Neil, you have no basis to conclude this, And as JD correctly notes, the lens and body are calibrated separately. And unless the sensor is improperly installed (highly unlikely), the EVF will of course show a focused image; it's taken off the sensor. One would need to check other lenses using the RF to find any inconsistencies to better determine if the problem is the body or the lens, and it seems he did just that. Leica likes to have body and lenses to avoid back and forth.

 

Rather ironic coming from you, since you sold your M sfter having focusing issues, and admitted that you never checked focus calibration. Kind of like your comment today on SL zooms, which you've never tested.

 

Jeff

 

I just passed on what you had told me years ago...............nothing wrong with that is there???

Bottom line its up to the OP what he does with his lens, who pays for it wand where it gets sent. If it was me I would send it all back to Germany, pay to get it fixed and move on and take pictures.

 

Neil

[Jeff S]

I just passed on what you had told me years ago...............nothing wrong with that is there???

Bottom line its up to the OP what he does with his lens, who pays for it wand where it gets sent. If it was me I would send it all back to Germany, pay to get it fixed and move on and take pictures.

 

Neil

That's because you don't understand the details or logic. You said it was the RF, when it could well be the lens. There are simple tests one can perform to attempt to determine which, and I called you out on not using them to your advantage before dumping your system. Sending everything off is a last step, after testing, assuming one doesn't want to personally adjust the RF....IF that's the issue. The OP determined that it's NOT the issue, it's the lens.

 

Best you stick to your endless questions rather than giving advice.

 

Jeff

Edited May 19, 2017 by Jeff S

[jaapv]

He probably meant not Berlin because its the capital of Germany

try Leica Camera AG Customer Care Am Leitz-Park 5 35578 Wetzlar

which is the much better option

 

By the way in my opinion it is the dealers care not to sell any defocused lens at all

even when he claimed to sell controlled and working gear right ?

it is, but I tend to be lenient if a quick a and efficient solution is offered. As appears to have been done here

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

That's because you don't understand the details or logic. You said it was the RF, when it could well be the lens. There are simple tests one can perform to attempt to determine which, and I called you out on not using them to your advantage before dumping your system. Sending everything off is a last step, after testing, assuming one doesn't want to personally adjust the RF....IF that's the issue. The OP determined that it's NOT the issue, it's the lens.

 

Best you stick to your endless questions rather than giving advice.

 

Jeff

 

Well we should both be happy then;

I like asking questions :) 

And you like bitching about me asking questions .............but answer them anyway :) 

 

Win Win stipulation 

 

Happy Days

 

Neil