Question for Flash Expert

[sillbeers15]

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For Manual OCF @ slow sync 1/250sec, I choose Phottix Ares II transmitter + Juno flashes. The transmitter is a single pin unit and it transmit triggering signal directly to Juno flashes with built in transceiver (pic below). I replaced it over my pocket wizard plus IIIs + Lumopro manual flashes, saves me the hassle of setting up receivers + flashes and it improves reiability.

 

 

However I'm exploring if any manual flash + wireless controllers are available to support HSS? I was tols the Profoto A1 + Air-TTL can offer manual mode flash with HSS. I'm sceptical.

 

Phottix Ares II & Junos by sillbeers15

[JiriS]

I’m using Godox X1-T wireless trigger with Canon 600EX-RT flash on my Leica SL. It’s all manual, but I can control the power output of the flash remotely which is great.

The max sync speed is 1/200. Going up to 1/250 only half of the frame is illuminated by the flash.

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[LocalHero1953]

I’m using Godox X1-T wireless trigger with Canon 600EX-RT flash on my Leica SL. It’s all manual, but I can control the power output of the flash remotely which is great.

The max sync speed is 1/200. Going up to 1/250 only half of the frame is illuminated by the flash.

Which version of the X1T is this? Canon or Nikon? I assume it's Canon from what you say. AlexP couldn't get the X1T-N to work on his SL, but you seem to have better luck. I'd the Nikon version might work, but not the Canon version, so I'm puzzled.

Edited January 28, 2018 by LocalHero1953

[JiriS]

Which version of the X1T is this? Canon or Nikon? I assume it's Canon from what you say. AlexP couldn't get the X1T-N to work on his SL, but you seem to have better luck. I'd the Nikon version might work, but not the Canon version, so I'm puzzled.

 

Yes it's the Canon version (on the box it says Godox X1c). It also works well with my Leica Q and little Fujifilm EF-X20 flash (albeit no remote power adjustment on the Fuji flash).

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Which version of the X1T is this? Canon or Nikon? I assume it's Canon from what you say. AlexP couldn't get the X1T-N to work on his SL, but you seem to have better luck. I'd the Nikon version might work, but not the Canon version, so I'm puzzled.

 

I've got the X1T(n) working on my SL. The trigger confuses the shoe so it's not smooth sailing. Things like changing ISO don't appear to work (but they do. just the display goes weird). Taping the pins helps. The Canon version would be a better choice. No HSS of course. I'm getting 1/200 as well. I got 1/250 with the old Godox triggers.

 

I'm tempted to try permanently removing or covering the TTL pins to "make" a single pin trigger. They're cheap enough it's worth a try.

 

Gordon

[LocalHero1953]

I've got the X1T(n) working on my SL. The trigger confuses the shoe so it's not smooth sailing. Things like changing ISO don't appear to work (but they do. just the display goes weird). Taping the pins helps. The Canon version would be a better choice. No HSS of course. I'm getting 1/200 as well. I got 1/250 with the old Godox triggers.

 

I'm tempted to try permanently removing or covering the TTL pins to "make" a single pin trigger. They're cheap enough it's worth a try.

 

Gordon

Thanks. I guess then you haven't tried a Leica flash on top of the X1-T(N) - to see whether it passes all signals through, as the Cactus V6 seems to? So one could use the SF64 on camera as well.

 

I can get 1/250 with pocketwizards (and 1/320 with a Nikon SB28 on camera), but now I want remotely controllable power, most likely from two AD200's. If I could use the X1-T with the SF64 on top that would be a convenient package (roving camera with on camera flash plus remote ambient/contextual lighting), otherwise I would need a TT600 or VF850 as combined controller and on-camera flash.

Edited January 29, 2018 by LocalHero1953

[sillbeers15]

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Thanks. I guess then you haven't tried a Leica flash on top of the X1-T(N) - to see whether it passes all signals through, as the Cactus V6 seems to? So one could use the SF64 on camera as well.

 

I can get 1/250 with pocketwizards (and 1/320 with a Nikon SB28 on camera), but now I want remotely controllable power, most likely from two AD200's. If I could use the X1-T with the SF64 on top that would be a convenient package (roving camera with on camera flash plus remote ambient/contextual lighting), otherwise I would need a TT600 or VF850 as combined controller and on-camera flash.

It is only single pin on the X1-T(N), so the SF64 will only work in manual mode.

[Photon42]

I am presently experimenting a bit with flash lights and Leica is not the most easy camera brand for this when it comes to High Speed Sync. Wired HSS works with Nikon type flash extension cords, but I wanted to go wireless. After a bit of reading and trying, I arrived with the following setup, which I feel is worth posting:

 

• Nikon compatible cord from the camera to a Leica HSS capable flash (here: SF40)
• Cactus Trigger V6 (Mark I - I guess Mark II works just fine) set to trigger/sender mode, Optical Slave: Main Flash
• Both gaffer'ed together the way that the optical cell of the Cactus V6 Trigger faces the flash and but in a sack with an oping for the cord
• Configure the desired flash group with the V6 (say: A)
• Take a Cactus RF60 and set it to Wireless Slave mode, Group A, AU HSS off and HSS sympathy mode
• Close the sack
• Take a shot

It works every time with 1/1000. It also works with my dated flash lamps from Bron I just got well used. For that, I use a second V6 as a receiver.

 

No black lines.

 

I have not used this extensively, but maybe it revives the discussion. Leica needs to work with flash/lightning vendors to get this going into a professional solution.

 

Regards

Ivo

 

The device:

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Photon42

[sillbeers15]

I am presently experimenting a bit with flash lights and Leica is not the most easy camera brand for this when it comes to High Speed Sync. Wired HSS works with Nikon type flash extension cords, but I wanted to go wireless. After a bit of reading and trying, I arrived with the following setup, which I feel is worth posting:

 

• Nikon compatible cord from the camera to a Leica HSS capable flash (here: SF40)
• Cactus Trigger V6 (Mark I - I guess Mark II works just fine) set to trigger/sender mode, Optical Slave: Main Flash
• Both gaffer'ed together the way that the optical cell of the Cactus V6 Trigger faces the flash and but in a sack with an oping for the cord
• Configure the desired flash group with the V6 (say: A)
• Take a Cactus RF60 and set it to Wireless Slave mode, Group A, AU HSS off and HSS sympathy mode
• Close the sack
• Take a shot

It works every time with 1/1000. It also works with my dated flash lamps from Bron I just got well used. For that, I use a second V6 as a receiver.

 

No black lines.

 

I have not used this extensively, but maybe it revives the discussion. Leica needs to work with flash/lightning vendors to get this going into a professional solution.

 

Regards

Ivo

 

 

The device:

 

 

 

 

Hi Ivo,

Help me to understand. You are using the Cactus V6 trigger to match the Cactus RF60 flash on its HSS sympathy mode (manual HSS, I guess?) with V6 triggered via SF40 triggering the v6 trigger (as there is no Leica compatability form V6 available?)? Why can't you mount SF40 on camera hotshoe directly?

[LocalHero1953]

 

 

Hi Ivo,

Help me to understand. You are using the Cactus V6 trigger to match the Cactus RF60 flash on its HSS sympathy mode (manual HSS, I guess?) with V6 triggered via SF40 triggering the v6 trigger (as there is no Leica compatability form V6 available?)? Why can't you mount SF40 on camera hotshoe directly?

 

Looks like the Cactus trigger would block the lens/VF!

Edited February 18, 2018 by LocalHero1953

[Photon42]

Well - The cactus trigger translates the optical flash from the SF40 into a wireless signal. The SF40 tells the CL that the flash is capable of HSS, thus allowing for higher sync speed.

[Photon42]

Hi Ivo,

Help me to understand. You are using the Cactus V6 trigger to match the Cactus RF60 flash on its HSS sympathy mode (manual HSS, I guess?) with V6 triggered via SF40 triggering the v6 trigger (as there is no Leica compatability form V6 available?)? Why can't you mount SF40 on camera hotshoe directly?

The task is to trigger other flashes with HSS. I could mount the flash but well ... have you seen the construction?

[sillbeers15]

The task is to trigger other flashes with HSS. I could mount the flash but well ... have you seen the construction?

Thanks.

Would it be necessary to use SF40 (with TTL & HSS capability mounted on hot shoe of Leica digital camera) to trigger the optical signal of the Cactus v6 trigger?

Am I correct to think that so long a optical signal (from any flash triggered by the Leica camera) reaches any flash capable of emitting Hyper sync flash burst (at manual mode), we can technically get to break the traditional sync speed of Leica cameras? So if I can get the SF58 to be set at M- HSS (not certain if this function exist?) via optical trigger by another manual flash nearby that is triggered by a wireless transmitter on the camera, then we should be able to get manual HSS (only on full 1/1 power and no tilting of flash position)?

[Photon42]

Thanks.

Would it be necessary to use SF40 (with TTL & HSS capability mounted on hot shoe of Leica digital camera) to trigger the optical signal of the Cactus v6 trigger?

Am I correct to think that so long a optical signal (from any flash triggered by the Leica camera) reaches any flash capable of emitting Hyper sync flash burst (at manual mode), we can technically get to break the traditional sync speed of Leica cameras? So if I can get the SF58 to be set at M- HSS (not certain if this function exist?) via optical trigger by another manual flash nearby that is triggered by a wireless transmitter on the camera, then we should be able to get manual HSS (only on full 1/1 power and no tilting of flash position)?

 

 

As I tried to express: I think it is enough to have a Flash connected to the camera being compatible to Leica's HSS protocol. The Metz 54i with Leica shoe works as well. Doesn't have to be the SF40. I have only tried these two flashes with my old S2 and the CL. The flash is only needed to trick the camera into allowing higher sync speed. Then we need the  remote flash which is slow enough to be used for HSS. The Cactus seems to work, as well as my Bron Litos.

[sillbeers15]

As I tried to express: I think it is enough to have a Flash connected to the camera being compatible to Leica's HSS protocol. The Metz 54i with Leica shoe works as well. Doesn't have to be the SF40. I have only tried these two flashes with my old S2 and the CL. The flash is only needed to trick the camera into allowing higher sync speed. Then we need the remote flash which is slow enough to be used for HSS. The Cactus seems to work, as well as my Bron Litos.

Greatly appreciate your sharing of information. I understand and agree the flash of choice is important to illuminate the whole frame sufficiently. My experience on using Lumopro LP160 manual flash I can get away with sync speed of up to 1/320 sec while using phottix Juno manual flash, I can only get 1/250sec before getting black lines on higher speed. I’m curious, if camera sets to M mode and it syncs flash at any speed. Do you require a flash capable to fool the camera to sync higher speed?

Earlier you shared you have succeeded in 1/1000sec. Why only 1/1000sec sync speed? Cannot go higher due to black lines or you have yet try? It seems high shutter speed useful for shoot outdoor portraits against ambient light with HSS fill in flash is useful.

Edited February 19, 2018 by sillbeers15

[sillbeers15]

There is TTL-HSS & M-HSS mode in the SF58 flash. Only problem is it can only be turned on when the flash sits into the camera hotshoe.

I fired the SF58 off camera trying the M, A, multi flash mode with pocket wizard Plus IIIs with my SL set to M mode. The same situation appeared that I could shoot without black lines till 1/320. At 1/400 slight black lines appear at the bottom of frame. For the purpose of fill in flash, The max sync speed I could achieve is no more than 1/400sec sync speed.

So if 1/1000 sec sync speed could be achieved, it must be that the flash allow M-TTL to be turned on at OCF position (which the SF58 could not or I have yet to find a way to fool it as on-camera flash position) that could do manual HSS.

[Photon42]

Do you require a flash capable to fool the camera to sync higher speed?

 

Yes.

 

Earlier you shared you have succeeded in 1/1000sec. Why only 1/1000sec sync speed? Cannot go higher due to black lines or you have yet try? It seems high shutter speed useful for shoot outdoor portraits against ambient light with HSS fill in flash is useful.

This is what I tried. Faster should work, too.

 

Again: The main points are

 

1. Trick the camera to allow for faster shutter speed beyond flash sync. For that we need a HSS compatible flash

2. Have a flash which lights long enough to have the whole frame covered with ideally constant output while the slit travels over the frame. The SF40 of course does it but the point was to trigger other flashes, too

[sillbeers15]

Yes.

 

 

This is what I tried. Faster should work, too.

 

Again: The main points are

 

1. Trick the camera to allow for faster shutter speed beyond flash sync. For that we need a HSS compatible flash

2. Have a flash which lights long enough to have the whole frame covered with ideally constant output while the slit travels over the frame. The SF40 of course does it but the point was to trigger other flashes, too

Thx.

As for the manual flash used to provide light coverage to sync above camera’s sync speed should be set normally in Manual mode and 1/1 power setting? Would it also be possible to use the optical slave mode of the manual flash to receive the signal triggered from the master flash attached to the camera?

[sillbeers15]

Yes.

 

 

This is what I tried. Faster should work, too.

 

Again: The main points are

 

1. Trick the camera to allow for faster shutter speed beyond flash sync. For that we need a HSS compatible flash

2. Have a flash which lights long enough to have the whole frame covered with ideally constant output while the slit travels over the frame. The SF40 of course does it but the point was to trigger other flashes, too

Thx.

As for the manual flash used to provide light coverage to sync above camera’s sync speed should be set normally in Manual mode and 1/1 power setting? Would it also be possible to use the optical slave mode of the manual flash to receive the signal triggered from the master flash attached to the camera?

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[Photon42]

Thx.

As for the manual flash used to provide light coverage to sync above camera’s sync speed should be set normally in Manual mode and 1/1 power setting? Would it also be possible to use the optical slave mode of the manual flash to receive the signal triggered from the master flash attached to the camera?

yes. The signal does get picked up by an optical trigger. Again - the objective here was to trigger the flash wirelessly as this is generally the most versatile method. My flash was set to 1/32 of power and it still worked - probably due to the HSS mode it has. I suspect this slows down the flash duration.