ianpilbeam Posted August 12, 2017 Share #201 Posted August 12, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, my six week old, M10 has this ISO failure and is stuck on a very unhelpful ISO 6400. I liked the dial and used it quite a bit and think it is poor that such a high level professional camera can be rendered useless by a mechanical fault (if that is what it is). Happened mid shoot and has caused me to lose shots that I would have been able to take with the M10. It's scheduled to go back to Leica for repair and I shall be interested to see if they recommend using the dial less or can give some kind of assurance that it won't fail again. How about some kind of compensation for those who have had this problem? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 12, 2017 Posted August 12, 2017 Hi ianpilbeam, Take a look here M10 Stuck On ISO 400. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
M11 for me Posted August 12, 2017 Share #202 Posted August 12, 2017 I don't think that you will get a recommendation not to use that ISO wheel so often. It is made for that and you should get your camera back with a perfect ISO wheel. You are just unlucky that you got one of zhese early models. What might strike me is the fact that you have your camera only a few weeks. I wonder: Did you buy it from a regular dealer? Leica said that only M10s of the very early production were affected. So why yours! That would be my question here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
riswanc Posted August 12, 2017 Share #203 Posted August 12, 2017 Well may be someone believe the early production only that got affected As much as believing we sold 60 cameras and this is the first one While problems already arise before that I mean, we just simply need to be realistic That's all Instagram @jakontil Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mweiner Posted August 12, 2017 Share #204 Posted August 12, 2017 Perhaps it's too early but I think we are not far from being able to say that the problem is contained. We have 10 reports of the failing ISO setting here, all between May in mid July. In the German forum I am the only one who reported that it hit him. Heavy usage of the wheel does not seem to cause it. It happens suddenly, even if one uses the wheel very rarely. So it should have hit those whose cameras are faulty already. It seems as if there was either a faulty part involved or some sort of wrong assemblage but in both cases it does not concern all M10 bodies but only a limited number. So let's wait some more weeks if there a further reports. If there are new cases even from people who got their camera in the first weeks, this could be a reason to stay cautious. Setting the wheel on M enables all settings in the menu - even Auto-Iso. You don't have to use the wheel. If there are no new cases during the next weeks, I'd say that the problem will not even be remembered in a few months - then use your whell as you like it. UliWer, I like your appoach, but what if some of the people you are advising to continue not using their ISO wheels for “some more weeks” have faulty-wheeled cameras which have not yet been identified because the wheels are not being used/tested. In that case, we would see a rash of failures as people put their wheels to use after “some weeks.” To be cautious, should I wait for some more weeks after the some weeks? However, that won’t help if the others following your advice are similarly cautions. The best thing (for me) would be for everyone (but me) to follow Steve Ash’s approach (post 198 above) of heavily using their wheels to see if they can provoke them to fail. Then in a few weeks I would have a much better idea of whether Jaap is correct that only a small number of cameras were affected. I am sure he is right that Leica has the problem under control. But without better information than we have here about the manufacture dates, I don’t know if Leica got control of the problem before my M10 (SN 5152*) was made in (I’m guessing) March or April. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted August 12, 2017 Share #205 Posted August 12, 2017 Yes, my six week old, M10 has this ISO failure and is stuck on a very unhelpful ISO 6400. I liked the dial and used it quite a bit and think it is poor that such a high level professional camera can be rendered useless by a mechanical fault (if that is what it is). Happened mid shoot and has caused me to lose shots that I would have been able to take with the M10. It's scheduled to go back to Leica for repair and I shall be interested to see if they recommend using the dial less or can give some kind of assurance that it won't fail again. How about some kind of compensation for those who have had this problem? The repair will take about two weeks - often shipping takes longer. There is no recommendation by Leica not to use the wheel. - and no compensation besides you get a sensor cleanung and an adjustment (if there should be anything to adjust). Can you give the number of your M 10 (first four digits are enough) and tell what date is on the barcode sticker on the box it was delivered in - and when it happened? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted August 12, 2017 Share #206 Posted August 12, 2017 ... But without better information than we have here about the manufacture dates, I don’t know if Leica got control of the problem before my M10 (SN 5152*) was made in (I’m guessing) March or April. For all we know it seems that the failures occur with camera numbers 515xxxx to 518xxxx. So unfortunately we cannot rule it out for yours though it also seems that only a very limited part out of these numbers really has the problem. You can find out the manufactoring date of your camera from the date on the barcode sticker on the box. even if this date tells only the day when it was boxed, it gives you an idea, since the actual production probably was a few days before this date. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mweiner Posted August 12, 2017 Share #207 Posted August 12, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you for your efforts to pin down the ISO wheel failures in relation to serial # and manufacture date. My camera SN 5152* came in a box with a date of 3/21/2017 in the bar-code label so it was likely manufactured during the 1st 3 months after the Jan 19 announcement. The camera has not suffered from the ISO wheel problem; but that isn't really useful information. I did use the wheel moderately during the first month I had it in May. However, since then I set the wheel to M and have not been using it so we don't know if it is about to have the problem or not. Different folks have different approaches to risk and/or the value of the external ISO dial. There is one important factor the needs to be weighed against the risk factor we are struggling with here. I love the _idea_ of the external dial and in general I much prefer that to struggling with menus. However, I find (as several other's argued when the M10 was first released), that with the M10 using the menus is possibly actually easier than the dial: - On the one hand the dial needs two hands and a re-positioning of the camera in one's hands to lift it up. (And, as discussed in another thread, I can't manage to keep it up for easy changing but keep pushing it down, so for me I would always have to struggle thru lifting up in order to change the ISO setting.) - On the other hand, the ISO setting is can be immediately viewed in the favorites after one push of the menu button, and it's easy to scroll down to change it. - Furthermore, the order of what appears in the favorites menu is determined by the order of items in the main menu. I find I don't need any items of the main menu that would come before the ISO settings to be favorites. Thus, the ISO setting is at the top of my favorites (eliminating any need to scroll down to change it. Thus checking the current ISO setting is easier than most "chimps" to check a shot and changing it is arguably easier than using the dial. I don't want to reopen here the arguments about which is more egonomic, the external wheel or the iso on the favorites menu, but when you consider the risk of a locked-up iso setting, it is no wonder that so many have chosen to leave their wheels on 'M', and that we may never know the percentage (and dates of manufacture) of the problem cameras. I am sure that Leica has fixed the manufacturing process to avoid the problem, and it seems they have been good about promptly repairing defective ISO dials. After that, the most useful thing they could do for most of us with pre SN 5159* cameras, would be to issue a firmware update making it possible (as a special, deeply buried menu option) to override a locked-up dial, effectively making it 'M'. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianpilbeam Posted August 17, 2017 Share #208 Posted August 17, 2017 In reply to your asking about my camera's serial number starts with 5183 and the date on the box is 10th May 2107 so that does mean that camera is one of the later numbers. Hope this helps and that Leica will rectify the fault. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted August 17, 2017 Share #209 Posted August 17, 2017 Being afraid to use your ISO dial for fear it will fail is silly. Why would you not use your camera to its full potential? and, If your camera has a defect don't you want to know? The chance it does is very small, so just use your camera. BTW- I have never used two hands to change my ISO...nor have I ever had any issues changing the ISO quickly as I shoot. I use my M10 on a regular basis, and the ISO dial gets a serious workout. I pop it up and down multiple times per day. I think trying to assign serial numbers to the issue is futile. My guess is the problem cameras all had one common denominator...like the same technician assembled the ISO dial, and he/she didn't do it correctly. The number of defective cameras is very small relative to the number of cameras shipped. A few tips on using the ISO dial: 1- Try your fore finger and thumb from the left side (nails up). Please them under the cap and push up. The ISO dial will pop right up. Alternately, try your index finger and middle finger (nails down), lifting up from the very tips...either method works quickly. Find a technique that works for you, but there is no reason to struggle lifting the dial. 2- while shooting in mixed lighting levels, leave the ISO dial in the up position. I generally always shoot this way if I know I will need to adjust the ISO, and have not once accidentally moved the ISO setting. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
riswanc Posted August 18, 2017 Share #210 Posted August 18, 2017 The iso dial up really helpful when shooting mixed lights indeed Don't have to scroll through menus, just turn it to the desired iso I'm in love with my iso dial, hope it wont be taken away from me Instagram @jakontil Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mweiner Posted August 18, 2017 Share #211 Posted August 18, 2017 Ok, from the posts here, it sounds like most experienced M users think the risk of ‘iso stuck’ is low enough and the better ergonomics of the wheel vs menu are significant enough for them to recommend that we use the wheel and expect the best. Apparently, there aren’t that many folks like me who over-cautiously fear a sudden lock-up and find the ergonomics of the menu an acceptable trade-off.If there were a lot more folks like me among those who purchased cameras from Jan to (at least) May who are fearful of using their wheels, then it would be nice for Leica to write into the firmware an _option_ to force the menu iso settings to over-ride those from the (stuck) wheel. Then we could more confidently use our wheels knowing that if the ISO wheel stuck the camera would still be usable. Of course if there were a great many cautious folks like me not using their wheels, such an option might be a disadvantage to Leica as many would start using their wheels and uncover more M10’s needing warranty repair. However, from the recent posts here, that does not appear to be an issue. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted August 19, 2017 Share #212 Posted August 19, 2017 Well, they could sent a special firmware to those hit hard e.g. on a trip. Would at least save the rest of the journey. Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahLondon Posted August 21, 2017 Share #213 Posted August 21, 2017 Yes, it happened to me on a shoot today. The iso jammed at 6400 and couldn't be changed by either moving the wheel OR by setting the manual ISO or by using Auto. Very inconvenient since I was working professionally. Fortunately the Q got me out of a hole. I was told it's something to do with a magnet that comes loose inside the dial for the iso. I do hope this is something that they can easily get on top of, because I use the M10 every day both professionally and personally and find it basically a perfect camera it would be so frustrating to find it knocked out f action by something so mechanical and 'small".. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted August 22, 2017 Share #214 Posted August 22, 2017 If you havn't done yet you should arrange that your camera is fetched and sent to Leica at Wetzlar as fast as possible. The repair will not last too long. Can you tell us the serial no. of your camera (first 4 digits are sufficient) and when it was built? (Date is on the sticker with barcode on the original box). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianpilbeam Posted August 22, 2017 Share #215 Posted August 22, 2017 Yes my serial no is 5183 and the date on box is 2017/05/10. The body is currently on its way to Wetzlar. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderikvn Posted August 25, 2017 Share #216 Posted August 25, 2017 Mine is now stuck at 1600. Only 5 weeks old. I do use the dial Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mweiner Posted August 25, 2017 Share #217 Posted August 25, 2017 I would assume that there is a non-negligible number of people not using their ISO dials who would use them with more confidence if there were a menu _option_ to make the menu ISO setting override the dial. I will submit a request for that to the firmware request thread(s). Others who agree might want to second it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
riswanc Posted August 26, 2017 Share #218 Posted August 26, 2017 I agree with the menu override feature At least the reason i swoop to M10 isn't for its iso dial Instagram @jakontil Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted August 26, 2017 Share #219 Posted August 26, 2017 Mine is now stuck at 1600. Only 5 weeks old. I do use the dial Can you tell the serial no. - first 4 digits are sufficient - and which is date of the barcorde sticker on the box? I am asking to keep track if Leica's statement that it does not occur on newer cameras is right. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderikvn Posted August 27, 2017 Share #220 Posted August 27, 2017 21-06-2017 5190 Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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