Bad news for the SL.

[Csacwp]

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With Sony's new release I don't see how the SL will remain a successful product without a resolution increase at the very least.

 

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1486443

[LocalHero1953]

Odd - Sony seems to think Leica got it right - 24mp.

Nothing wrong with wanting more pixels, but this is hardly evidence that the market see more pixels as vital.

I see this as evidence that Leica got it right 18 months before anyone else. They are pretty well a match in features, though Sony includes PDAF, IBIS instead of OIS, and faster frame rate. I look forward to see how well they work in practice: focus speed and accuracy, IS with non-native lenses, and how much demand there is for that frame rate.

Competition is good

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[ramarren]

Why should I care what Sony has just announced? 

 

At some point, you move past the technology du jour and concentrate on doing photography. At least if you want to be a photographer, not a camera enthusiast, you do.  

 

That's where I am. The SL will be just fine for a very long time to come. My current camera kit with the SL is way more than just sufficient for my needs: I have precious little motivation to look at anything new. I'm concentrating my energy on "What to photograph? What to do with my photographs?" which are much harder notions to resolve than "what camera do I want today?" 

 

"Equipment is transient. Photographs endure."

[wildlightphoto]

Competition is good as long as Leica responds with an updated model.

 

Not everyone needs the faster frame rate, PDAF or IBIS but some do.  The a9 doesn't interest me because I've become accustomed to the a7rII's 42MP, but given Sony's history of adding an R model to the basic camera I'll be watching future developments closely.  A Leica SL.r with IBIS would also grab my attention.

Edited April 19, 2017 by wildlightphoto

[Bill W]

Do not really care personally. Sony seems to work for some folks but not me.

[ModernMan]

It will be somewhat interesting to see how the new Sony camera works with M lenses, particularly the non-telecentric ones. The A7r had too much edge smearing for my taste with some of my favorite M lenses. Not clear to me yet if the A9 has a cover glass over the sensor of similar thickness to that on the A7r, which was by accounts the root of the edge smearing issue with non-telecentric lenses.

 

In any case, I don't think I'd characterize this as bad news for the SL. Its just inevitable and predictable technological progress. 

[steveBK]

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I had 2 different A7 line bodies.

Fun for a while, but utterly frustrating as creative tools.  Sony has always been in the designing-to-a-specsheet game.

That said, if you want bang for your buck, don't mind the pains, etc.. they can be a good buy.

For M users.. sensors just not designed for M lenses and always found the results unpredictable.  That includes with the Summilux-M ASPH 50mm.

 

Menus were ridiculous, and battery was pathetic.  

This is the second or third time they've claimed to improve the menu system.. the jury is still out on that.

2x better battery is still probably 25-33% less than what you get on SL.

A7rII had the silly lossy compressed ~20MB RAW files which they then unlocked lossless.. but uncompressed! 100MB RAW with a firmware update.

IBIS is good, though honestly it works nowhere near as well as the smaller m4/3 bodies do.. theres just too much mass with a FF sensor.

Wouldn't mind IBIS on an SL mk2 regardless, but it's not a cure-all.

AF on A7rII was killer, but the number of options/sub-options/permutations and what features worked in which mode.. were a bit overwhelming.  I'd like to see that simplified.

 

 

It's interesting that they are settling @ 24MP.

Largely high enough for most applications, and not pushing bandwidth limitations.. making the high FPS/AF/EVF/etc bits easier.

 

It is interesting that a new A9 is $4500 and a used SL now goes for $4700 on eBay with accessories... I know I'd pick the latter.  

[Peter H]

People who choose Leica cameras often do so for reasons other than the very latest in electronics. It's often more a matter of what they feel they can do with the camera, rather than what the camera itself can do. I don't see this having a great impact on the SL, despite my lack of personal enthusiasm for the camera. And anyway, within reason, camera companies follow a fairly similar evolutionary path and what separates success from failure is how well the whole thing is implemented rather than the last word in specification, because that tends to even out in the long run.

 

If that makes me sound like a Leica fan, it's because generally, Leica gets things very nearly right in a slightly more appealing way than most.

 

And I'd still rather have an M10 than any other contemporary camera.

[Joshua Lowe]

oh no will my SL explode into dust the moment this camera is released?

[Peter H]

oh no will my SL explode into dust the moment this camera is released?

No, but it never has worked like that. That sounds like a recipe for complacency, because absolutely any new camera could be dismissed on these grounds regardless of its qualities.

 

There are legitimate and strong reasons to believe that the new Sony won't displace the SL in the affections of those who like it, but I don't think evaporating cameras is one of them!

[helged]

The SL is - in many aspects (for me, at least), a wonderful instrument. To see other vendors putting forward new wonders is nothing but refreshing. As stated above, Leica is not known for being a technological forerunner, albeit the SL has - in several aspects - been an exception to that rule. Nevertheless, with new, upgraded S, SL and Q systems in the horizon somewhere, sometime, I am confident that Leica will not end up as Kodak. So no bad news at all: Welcome to Sony, Fuji, Hassy and the rest of the gang! Enjoy shooting and playing with the existing, already well-tested and well-functioning gear. Upgrade if need or desire or money is in place - and then chose from a plethora of incarnations of Leicas, Sonys, Fujis, Hasseys, you name it. All having their weaknesses and strengths. And always will something 'better'/'larger'/'stronger'/'cleaner' pop up. This is and will remain the case. On my wish list, as a side-note, I look forward to upgraded SL and S systems. But I can and will wait, no problem at all.

Edited April 19, 2017 by helged

[Joshua Lowe]

Why should I care what Sony has just announced? 

 

At some point, you move past the technology du jour and concentrate on doing photography. At least if you want to be a photographer, not a camera enthusiast, you do.  

 

That's where I am. The SL will be just fine for a very long time to come. My current camera kit with the SL is way more than just sufficient for my needs: I have precious little motivation to look at anything new. I'm concentrating my energy on "What to photograph? What to do with my photographs?" which are much harder notions to resolve than "what camera do I want today?" 

 

"Equipment is transient. Photographs endure."

 

My biggest hope is the GAS people will continue to panic sell their SLs so I can pick a second body up for under $3,500.

[mmradman]

My biggest hope is the GAS people will continue to panic sell their SLs so I can pick a second body up for under $3,500.

You can bet on GAS-ers dumping SL's for M10 and other Leica and non Leica novelties. Set your budget, have money ready and keep an eye on likely dealers. Recently I picked up as good as brand new SL for 2/3 of the retail price - eighteen months remaining of warranty and hardly ever being used.

[Jeff S]

The only news is when Sony doesn't release a new camera. They enjoy that even more than FW upgrades.

 

Jeff

[caissa]

Let's wait and see if this new camera is good news for Sony users - and then in the end it could be bad news for Leica users.

But I do not see that it touches me in any way - or many other SL users.

I decided for the SL because it is perfect for using R and M glass. As far as I know Sony does not intend to change their microlens geometry for "vintage" glass, so it is not giving me what I need.

If I have 11 frames/s or 20 means nothing to me. Even a better AF is not really important for me, I can live with the current quality and speed.

So I have Leica because of the lenses (or the sensor suitable for these lenses) and the wonderful EVF.

I will still have that, whatever new camera Sony or anybody else is designing.

Even if Leica made an effort and offered a 50 MP SL 2, I am not sure I would order it, but probably wait for later when there is a bigger step.

 

But OK. newcomers have now even more choice in the Sony camp, but I am not sure if that makes a difference. Generally the Sony choice was already overwhelming for most users, and the Leica SL completely overprized. How could that become worse for Leica ?

But actually what this camera means is that there will soon be another one, with 42 MP or similar (if technology is ripe for it). As everybody is a bit amazed of the "step back". Sony decided for speed and only the 24 MP. Maybe more users/designers noted how small the benefit of the added resolution actually is. (with most current lenses)

Again, it does not address the weak points of Sony for me. Only more of the strengths, but the SL has more than enough strengths for me (for a few more years).  

(A prominent feature, but usually not mentioned in a list of pros and cons is the user interface. It helps me to concentrate on photography and not on the gazillion of features the camera offers.)

Edited April 19, 2017 by caissa

[HeinzX]

I see no real competition to the SL. People who want a Leica SL will stick to Leica because of the excellent lenses, the superb finder and the very solid body. That does not mean there is no upside potential in the SL sector, i.e. as far as the flashligbt system is concerned (Sony did that by a new firmware and new flashes with he A 7 IIxx succesfully) and there are some other wishes concernig firmware and other lenses than already in the present road map (i.e. a Macro lens and a 1,4 converter for the 90/280). The SL is an excellent tool and delivers stunning quality pctures from the technical point of view. And resolution is high enough for a full frame sensor - people who really want more resolution and do need it should rather go for camera with a medium format sensor. What could happen is that the Leica S System

will come under pressure - esp. by caneras like the new Fujifilm GFX 50S.

Edited April 19, 2017 by HeinzX

[caissa]

Maybe one more point. Would I now go and test the new Sony if it works well with M and R lenses ? 

What for ? I have all I need.

So this is for unripe people that need to test everything - because it could be possible that it is slightly better ....   And for writers who want to fill their columns and websites. To get more money out of it.

And this is the main reason I am fed up with it. After a single year I need no new "MUCH BETTER" camera. I actually do not believe it can be much better. And I know I have to get much better to use the SL up to its potential. So the potential big improvements lie in the personal development and not in acquiring a new camera body.

 

During the time a decent camera company offers one new major model, Sony offers at least 5 of them in the tradition of the computer manufacturer ....  And which is the Sony major model ? Nobody can tell. The next is already lurking around the next corner. And here lies the problem - I want to use a camera  (not a Sony camera computer that is replaced every 6 months).

 

I found it always ridiculous when people replaced their mobile phones every year by the latest model - and now the same happens in the camera business as well. What a waste ....

[M11 for me]

I fully agree

[Donzo98]

One of the reasons I like the Leica brand is the build quality.

 

I had an A7S for a short time.... and it felt like a plastic toy.

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[Joshua Lowe]

http://briansmith.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Sony-a9-action-1.jpg

 

I'm not out to hate on someone's photography but this isn't a good first impression of the a9.  It looks like something taken with a smartphone.