proenca Posted April 16, 2017 Share #1 Posted April 16, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi there, I'm thinking moving into the S line again. I used a S2 years ago and since I'm not a professional, I sold it due to the fact at the time needed money. Now, I have a M9, MDtyp262, 28lux and 50lux and... while I'm thrilled with the 28lux and somewhat happy with the 50lux, I'm not so happy with the MD. I love the concept and its UBER fun to use, its really like shooting film digitally, but I dont like the colours. I really dont. I rather pick my M9 and shoot colour - I never paid any attention to CMOS vs CCD discussions, but I really dont like the color that the MD outputs. And while I love to post processing and spending time doing so, not Also, my eyes are not what they were and focusing sometimes its a bit of a challenge - and I like to use my lens wide open So I have a few options : - trade in the MD + 50 lux + cash for a S006+70mm 2.5 ; I'll get my good colors back, my lovey bokeh back, AF and my beloved 70mm. for longer I plan buying the Contax adapter and few contax lenses ,for wider perhaps the Contax 35mm or even the S30mm - trade in the MD + 50 lux + cash for a SL + M adapter : I'll get 4k video, AF if I get the 24-90, superb ISO range but.... perhaps I dont like the colours. Seems the SL sensor is a M10/Q sensor, bit different from the M240/M262 variants and better color corrected - but perhaps its just me. I love the S line. For a lot of reasons : I like the lenses that were designed to be "the best, no compromises". If I trade in my 28lux, I'll loose 1.4 abilities all together and can get a 30mm S if i put a bit more cash. And later on getting a Contax adapter and pickup a 140 and 210m for peanuts. I shoot mainly landscapes and my kids. Yes, nothing very exciting I'm afraid but I love it. Few things worry me about the S : - I used the S2 when I did not have kids, I remember the AF being a bit on the slow side, but accurate. I never felt the need to manual focous. Can you decently manual focus with the S lenses ? how is the S lenses with decent moving subjects, ie, walking & running kids ? dogs ? - wider. I love landscapes and I have a 15mm voigtlander and 18mm zeiss. As far I'm concerned, there is only one S option : 24mm and I dont like to sell my kidney now. what other options there is for wide angles ? Contax goes max to 35mm and Hassy with adapter to 28mm. I know my ISO will be maxed to 800 tops and that does not really pose a problem to me : although I would be without any high iso camera ( M9 not a high iso champion either ) , really does not bother me. Leica SL seems the more logic choice : high iso, perfect for shooting kids, great for using my wide angles, 4k video, bla bla bla. But there is someting about the S line. I bought my M9 new, 7 years ago. Today, still love it. The S has been created to be the best MF Leica can do and the lenses are superb, world class.They make Haselblad H lens, in general, seem "just good". The SL lenses are very good - but not world class "whooaaa". And while the 50lux SL is, its just a beemooth out of proportions. the S+70 is a big package, but its balanced. The S seems a package that, few years down the line, would still be a awesome package. Even if Leica does the S3 with 50 or 60mp, like it seems is about to announce, the lens are still top notch. And even the camera is good. The SL seems the rational choice but the S... Please tell me its overkill to shoot non professionally with a S I'm trying to go with the SL but the S006 just keep telling to my ear "no no no, you want me". It worries me the S-lens-AF-fail that is plaging "S-land" now... but I live in Europe, not the USA where you guys have to live with Leica NJ which is, sorry to say, crap. I had my Leica M9 sensor failed three weeks ago, went to Leica Porto Portugal, they said "yap, its broken, well send it to solms" and they did. Three weeks after, sensor, range finder focusing system, all replaced for free. Top notch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 Hi proenca, Take a look here who still uses the S (006/SE/S2) still today ? thinking about getting in agian. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
John McMaster Posted April 16, 2017 Share #2 Posted April 16, 2017 Still happy with my S2-P, for what I use it for it is great although some of the later additions would be nice ;-) I think the S(006) is probably a better used buy these days, not much different in price but newer and still getting updates from Leica. john Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowBelly Posted April 16, 2017 Share #3 Posted April 16, 2017 I've 2SL's, M9, and your dream S006. There all great the SL's are wonderful fast and adaptable, but guessing your already using a pair of rangefinders af speed is not everything buy the S006 it's a wonderful camera and you already know the lenses are amazing. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted April 16, 2017 Share #4 Posted April 16, 2017 There's a new S008 coming just around the corner, and when that puppy hits the shelfs all the other S cameras prices will start plummeting.......... just hang on to what you got and pick up my S007 for a bargain Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted April 16, 2017 Share #5 Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) I understand your considerations. Every year I look through my photos and pick my 10 best, 8 out of 10 are with the S. I had to sell my S006 for the S007, but still would have loved to have it as a backup. PS: I do NOT believe a new S (008 or whatever) is coming this calendar year. Prices are already deflated due to the (now solved) AF issue, so it should be a good time to buy. Edited April 16, 2017 by erlingmm Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted April 16, 2017 Share #6 Posted April 16, 2017 Personally I would go for the SL in your situation. For your reference I a/o own the SL, S2P and M9. The SL with 24-90mm weighs 1,987g (which is less than the S2 + 70mm) and is extremely well balanced. That being said,if you in the meanwhile got addicted to the quirkiness of the M9... go for the S006 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
proenca Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share #7 Posted April 16, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've 2SL's, M9, and your dream S006. There all great the SL's are wonderful fast and adaptable, but guessing your already using a pair of rangefinders af speed is not everything buy the S006 it's a wonderful camera and you already know the lenses are amazing. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Silly question : how is the AF comparable between SL vs S ? is the S much slower than the SL ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
proenca Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted April 16, 2017 I understand your considerations. Every year I look through my photos and pick my 10 best, 8 out of 10 are with the S. I had to sell my S006 for the S007, but still would have loved to have it as a backup. PS: I do NOT believe a new S (008 or whatever) is coming this calendar year. Prices are already deflated due to the (now solved) AF issue, so it should be a good time to buy. that's EXACTLY my "problem" : reviewing my favorite photos from all time, most of them are with the S2... the clarity, sharpness and 3D effect is second to none. Hence why the 006 "demon" is talking into my ear the only thing that comes close is the pictures I have with my, now gone ( stupid me ) , Noctilux 1.0. I prefer them to my 0.95, hands down. I love stuff with flaws, I guess Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
proenca Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share #9 Posted April 16, 2017 Personally I would go for the SL in your situation. For your reference I a/o own the SL, S2P and M9. The SL with 24-90mm weighs 1,987g (which is less than the S2 + 70mm) and is extremely well balanced. That being said,if you in the meanwhile got addicted to the quirkiness of the M9... go for the S006 As I asked another user, is the S2P AF really much slower than the SL ? SL+24-90 is 1987grs, S+70mm is 1400 + 740grs, which is 2140grs... so 140grs difference. Very noticable in M "land", where we are talking about 2kgs more or less 140grs is not earthshattering. Actually, thats one of the "minuses" for me of the SL : if it was 1200grs or whatever with lens, I would think twice ( or thrice ) about it. But to lug around 2kgs of camera and lens, lets face it : its not featherweight and after a while, it takes a bit of toll. So my line of though it : its "okayish" to do so, to carry around 2kgs ( and 1kg more for an extra lens in a bag ) for medium format, top class lenses, 37.5mp. Not OK to do so to have a bit more image quality than my current MD, which already has 24mp, already has good iso range - ok not as good as a SL, but its perfect usable up to 1600-2500, which I do not need more ever - and weights with a good f1.4 lens, 1.2, 1.3kgs. To be honest, the 24-90 bothers me being a F4 in the long end. Stupid prejudice, I know, but I was never a zoom guy - always loved primes. How I imagine, Leica RD department in designing new lenses : S team : hey we need this particular focal lens. Lets do the best we can and THEN we price it. SL team : we have this target final price of xxxx euros. Lets do the best we can within that price rage. Stupid ? perhaps. but somehow I cannot get excited with the 24-90 pictures I see. I get all wet and knees bent with most of the pictures I see from the 70mmS and the ones I still keep when I had it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 16, 2017 Share #10 Posted April 16, 2017 You might try to test your options.... rent, borrow, demo or buy used (to not sacrifice much money if you decide to sell). That always sorts my decisions. As far as color output, there are of course ways to attempt to achieve similar results.... profiles, PP settings, etc . The forum is full of CCD vs CMOS debates. One thing to consider regarding the SL 24-90 is its OIS capability, which helps ensure optimal results for handheld work. IQ comes from many factors. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted April 16, 2017 Share #11 Posted April 16, 2017 As I asked another user, is the S2P AF really much slower than the SL ? Night and day... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
proenca Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted April 16, 2017 You might try to test your options.... rent, borrow, demo or buy used (to not sacrifice much money if you decide to sell). That always sorts my decisions. As far as color output, there are of course ways to attempt to achieve similar results.... profiles, PP settings, etc . The forum is full of CCD vs CMOS debates. One thing to consider regarding the SL 24-90 is its OIS capability, which helps ensure optimal results for handheld work. IQ comes from many factors. Jeff Renting not an option, unfortunatly. I live in Lisbon and there is no renting photograhpic equipment. Hey, we have superb Leica customer care ( afterall, one of Leica main factories is in Portugal, if not the most important ) but not photo shop that rents equiment. I'm always considering buying used, so if anything doesnt go according to plan, the money loss is not that severe Thanks for pointing that out ( OIS ) but my main problem with the 24-90 is the bokeh and 3D pop. Or lack of. Sharpness ? brilliant. Every image I see from the 24-90, unless is processed by my 1.5 year old daughter, its sharp. Just find the images dead flat and no 3D effect. I had a Sony A7RII : 5 axis stabilization, CMOS up to 230482908420 iso, all bells and whistles : but I hated the files that came with it. I ditched the AF and bought a Contax adapter and bought some Contax finest lenses : 85 1.4, 50 1.4, 18mm ... bokeh and 3D separation were good, but the images were... meh. Can't really put a finger on it. Never ( and I had the camera for almost two years ) I was "woooaaa" by an image from the Sony. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 16, 2017 Share #13 Posted April 16, 2017 I can never make critical gear assessments until I've made my own prints using my own pics and workflow. My limited experience with the SL and 24-90 yielded results on a par with my superb M primes. I plan a rental for better judgment as a complementary system to the M. I eliminated the S006 from consideration after demo-ing it with the S30-90 for a week. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
proenca Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share #14 Posted April 16, 2017 I can never make critical gear assessments until I've made my own prints using my own pics and workflow. My limited experience with the SL and 24-90 yielded results on a par with my superb M primes. I plan a rental for better judgment as a complementary system to the M. I eliminated the S006 from consideration after demo-ing it with the S30-90 for a week. Jeff I agree with you, but for me, unfortunately, renting is not an option. I would gladly pay 400 or 600 usd / euros to use a S for a couple of days or a SL. Don't ask me why, we don't have stores in Portugal who rent. Even in Spain, its quite rare and only to locals and register in Spain. Unfortunatly, the 30-90 seems a hit or miss : read a few negatives so far from it, most common comment is that the 45-85 Contax beats it to death, despite being 15 years old. Not being a zoom man, does not worry me. However, I understand your point : I still have my S2 files and they are gorgeous. Downloaded a few SL DNG's ( not many available btw ) to try to process them but can't really get excited with those files. best GP Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 16, 2017 Share #15 Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) Not sure about your ultimate output, but it's a gorgeous print (of a worthy pic) that excites me. There are many camera choices today with great IQ, which when integrated into a full print workflow (with dozens of variables) can yield beautiful results (my prints aren't huge). More often than not, my camera decisions (after narrowing the field on IQ) depend more on the viewing/focusing experience, ergonomics and control interface, specific features (e.g., weather sealing), lens options and such. I love the S006 files, but the camera didn't meet my other considerations. An S007 (or S008?) might have better suited.... but that would introduce other trade offs, especially if I substituted a pack of S primes. Jeff Edited April 16, 2017 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted April 16, 2017 Share #16 Posted April 16, 2017 Lugging: I guess it depends on body, strength, stamina. I don't find there is a huge difference with the SL+zoom, and the S (depends on the lens). When I travel or go by car, I have the S "suitcase" which I find very practical. I have taken the S to several places in the USA, to safari in Kenya, to mountains and winterland in Norway. In 2014 I walked a week with the S and the zoom in Havana old town. It worked, but could be felt. In July I will take it to Kashgar and the Karakoram Highway in China. Can't take anything but the best on such trips. I am 60+ but physically strong. And I have a helpful wife ;-) 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eprom Posted April 16, 2017 Share #17 Posted April 16, 2017 I work with S 006 and SL, both are great and I love to work with them but for my taste both are way too big for walk around cameras. Ever tried the Q? It´s amazing and even at 50mm the 9MP resolution is enough for printing. ... it´s not the MP that counts, it´s the lens;-) Best, Peter__ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted April 16, 2017 Share #18 Posted April 16, 2017 Me: S-E (Typ 006) about 1300 shutter actuations per month. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmay Posted April 16, 2017 Share #19 Posted April 16, 2017 Lugging: I guess it depends on body, strength, stamina. I don't find there is a huge difference with the SL+zoom, and the S (depends on the lens). When I travel or go by car, I have the S "suitcase" which I find very practical. I have taken the S to several places in the USA, to safari in Kenya, to mountains and winterland in Norway. In 2014 I walked a week with the S and the zoom in Havana old town. It worked, but could be felt. In July I will take it to Kashgar and the Karakoram Highway in China. Can't take anything but the best on such trips. I am 60+ but physically strong. And I have a helpful wife ;-) It's good to have a wife to carry your gear . I am currently in the Swiss Alps carrying the S006, 24 mm, 30mm, 70mm and 180mm. I also have the M-P 240 with 21mm, filters, spare batteries, cards and tripod. Total is about 20kg. It is about the same weight as the large format gear that I formerly carried. Yes, it is heavy especially at 3000 meters elevation. It is "suffering for the art." I am also 60+, and have always been very active. Also, trekking poles help. Today, I used every lens, which is not usual for me. Jesse Sent from my Lenovo YT3-850L using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrayson3 Posted April 16, 2017 Share #20 Posted April 16, 2017 I will take an SL + 2 lenses on a walking trip in May, but I'll wish I had the S(006) for every shot. The reason I'm going with the SL is speed. It's not my trip, it's not for photography, and I don't want to slow everyone else down. And, even though the 24-90 is large and heavy, it's lighter than the S 24. In fact, SL+WATE+24-90 weighs almost a pound less than S(006)+24. But S(006) and S glass is still my favorite. I've used cameras with better lenses and more pixels and still prefer the S. --Matt 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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