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RF alignment. Here we go again.


satureyes

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Sorry. What I meant it when the lens is at its furthest point and can travel no more on the focus ring - is this 'true' infinity?

 

It is as close to infinity as we can expect. Any true difference is insignificant. With long lenses for astronomy it is an entirely different situation; they focus beyond physical infinity. Be assured with our short lenses and small format, practical print size & viewing distance then infinity is infinity.

 

Of course we ask, "Where is infinity?" Answer: "Oh, just settle for 1km or a mile. Whatever is so far away that our 35mm systems cannot adequately tell the difference at the sensor/film."

Edited by pico
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It is as close to infinity as we can expect. Any true difference is insignificant. With long lenses for astronomy it is an entirely different situation; they focus beyond physical infinity. Be assured with our short lenses and small format, practical print size & viewing distance then infinity is infinity.

 

Of course we ask, "Where is infinity?" Answer: "Oh, just settle for 1km or a mile. Whatever is so far away that our 35mm systems cannot adequately tell the difference at the sensor/film."

I get this. Thank you.

 

I am not sure if I'm explaining myself properly.

 

If I look at other lenses I have for different cameras and rotate them all the way to infinity the actual focus ring needs to be rocked backwards a little to get objects miles away into focus.

 

With the Leica glass as I understand it there should be no need to make this type of adjustment and when the lens is fully rotated then that's it. Everything is in focus at infinity.

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I get this. Thank you.

 

I am not sure if I'm explaining myself properly.

 

If I look at other lenses I have for different cameras and rotate them all the way to infinity the actual focus ring needs to be rocked backwards a little to get objects miles away into focus.

 

With the Leica glass as I understand it there should be no need to make this type of adjustment and when the lens is fully rotated then that's it. Everything is in focus at infinity.

 

 

yes.....

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I get this. Thank you.

 

I am not sure if I'm explaining myself properly.

 

If I look at other lenses I have for different cameras and rotate them all the way to infinity the actual focus ring needs to be rocked backwards a little to get objects miles away into focus.

 

With the Leica glass as I understand it there should be no need to make this type of adjustment and when the lens is fully rotated then that's it. Everything is in focus at infinity.

 

Most good manual focus lenses will hard stop at infinity, including Leica. If a lens for normal photography can focus past infinity then it's usually autofocus. They have to be able to do this or you'd keep destroying the AF motor.

 

The only exception to this that I see is when I use a lens with an adaptor. They are often a tiny bit short to allow focus slightly past infinity. However this isn't a native lens on native body situation.

 

Gordon

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Most good manual focus lenses will hard stop at infinity, including Leica. If a lens for normal photography can focus past infinity then it's usually autofocus. They have to be able to do this or you'd keep destroying the AF motor.

 

The only exception to this that I see is when I use a lens with an adaptor. They are often a tiny bit short to allow focus slightly past infinity. However this isn't a native lens on native body situation.

 

Gordon

Thank you.

So it seems (for now at least) that tiny little turn to the left has made all the difference

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Well...I am in the debt of @satureyes for this thread.

 

I too have been having some trouble (not a lot) with my M10 focus. It's most noticeable with my 90 Summicron at f/2 as you would expect. I have been seriously pondering swapping the 90 Cron for a 90 Summarit as a result. I just couldn't reliably get sharp focus even when being extremely careful. It was driving me bonkers.

 

So, I decided to do some more controlled tests. Camera on a tripod, aperture fully open, timed release, various distances, etc etc. And it transpired that all my lenses (24 Lux, 50 Lux, 90 Cron) were back focusing noticeably. Note that I'm used to this sort of testinghaving had to micro-adjust my Canon long sports lenses to my 1D bodies several times. I'm also decently mechanically adept and sympathetic.

 

Anyhow, inspired by @satureyes I had a look at the rangefinder adjustment points on my M10, read everything I could find (surprisingly not a lot), searched for videos (ditto), and finally decided to have at it with my 2mm allen key. Up until now I've been petrified of the magic voodoo levers and wheels inside my Leicas.

 

With the camera upside down, the allen key fits easily into the hex nut in the rangefinder wheel cam thing. It is easy to turn. I can see how a clumsy lens change could knock the adjustment out - I would have thought there would be more resistance tbh. Anyway, you can be very gentle and you don't need to apply lots of force at all. There is no fixing compound on the thread like there is on the inner pivot screw (which I left well alone). I started with a tiny adjustment (no more than a degree or two) towards the viewfinder side (clockwise with the camera upside down). I then re-checked with my 90mm lens on and could barely see any difference. 

 

Emboldened, I turned it clockwise a bit more (like another 5 degrees - I didn't measure the exact amount of turn) and retested. I could now see that the back-focusing was worse. So I was obviously going the wrong way.

 

I turned it the other way, anti-clockwise (remember the camera is upside down so the direction of turn is based on that orientation), about the same total amount as I had turned it clockwise. Retested. Oh! Amazing. The things I was focusing on were remarkably sharp. But it was front focusing a teeny bit so I had gone a bit too far.

 

I turned it back clockwise a smidge. Retested. Oh! Ah! That's remarkable. It may not be totally exact, but it's a big improvement and I'm very happy indeed. The 24 still back focuses a bit, but I'm not really worried about that as it's barely noticeable being such a wide lens. The 50 and 90 are spot on. 

 

I found the process is simple and easy. You may not - it's up to you. Retesting each time was simply a matter of taking pics of distant, mid distant, near, and close up using the rangefinder to focus carefully, and comparing them with the previous ones using Lightroom. I am so pleased that @satureyes had a go and showed that a mere mortal who isn't in a white coat in Solms can make a significant improvement to their camera's focusing accuracy. 

 

Here are some before and after shots using a printed test card as evidence. Before is on the left, after is on the right. These are 100% zoomed in Lightroom.

 

24 Summilux

33994472835_aca10a376b_c.jpg

 

50 Summilux

33952957576_807a30b6a2_c.jpg

 

90 Summicron

33952957376_157c3e808f_c.jpg

 

So there you go. Happy days.

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Glad it worked out for you too. I did have issues like this with my M240 but I think it was so out that it was sent back to Solms - eventually replaced. During this time I figured that I'd not make it any worse by trying to adjust things so I did.. and it seemed to work. Turned out eventually that one of my lenses even with shims was not working right so a new camera and one new lens later and it was sorted. I then had to go through it all again with the M10!

 

I think that the cameras are all set up to the same 'distance'- but it it possible (however unlikely) that the machine in Solms is not looking properly at the full RF range. 

Remember now to check the infinity...

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I have done this successfully with my M240, after CS in Solms an Wetzlar had failed tree times (!), and I will do this with my M10 in the case it will be necessary. But first Leica seems to fail in selling me one because they cannot deliver enough cameras to the market.

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I have done this successfully with my M240, after CS in Solms an Wetzlar had failed tree times (!), and I will do this with my M10 in the case it will be necessary. But first Leica seems to fail in selling me one because they cannot deliver enough cameras to the market.

Yes, having an M10 is definitely a pre-requisite to performing this adjustment :-)

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I've just been out to play with my M10 and 90 Summicron to reassure myself that I haven't completely messed it up. Good news - it really is spot on. What an amazing difference that small rangefinder adjustment made. I really am overjoyed.

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Sorry, but that's really funny.

Jeff

Don't rule out a special edition body, featuring only one focus distance, 2m. An even more focused tool for concentrating on the essentials!

No range finder, no screen, special lenses with no moveable focus ring...

 

I love it!

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My M10 is slightly out in the rangefinders vertical alignment. It doesn't seem to have an affect on photographs it's just annoying that objects aren't completely sharp in the viewfinder. When I get back from my holiday I'll get the dealer I bought it from the confirm the problem and then get them to send it to Leica. No doubt it will be some time before it's back.

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My M10 is slightly out in the rangefinders vertical alignment. It doesn't seem to have an affect on photographs it's just annoying that objects aren't completely sharp in the viewfinder. When I get back from my holiday I'll get the dealer I bought it from the confirm the problem and then get them to send it to Leica. No doubt it will be some time before it's back.

 

Vertical alignment is dead easy and takes 5 minutes with a 2mm Allen key.

 

Or you can wait a month or more for Leica to do it. But they didn't get it right the first time.....

 

Gordon

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  • 4 weeks later...

I just took my M10 back to the dealer who confirmed that the rangefinder was out of vertical alignment. They said they would get Leica to expedite the fix so its just a matter of waiting and hoping Leica don't mess it up further.

 

In the meantime I'm going to be using my recently purchased 111f red dial and nickel Elmar.

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Great thread. I was on a shoot and I must have knocked a 240 as all the shots with a 75mm were miles back focused. The other body was fine. So when I finished screaming, I tried the 2mm Allen key adjustment on the roller arm, as I certainly wasn't going to make it any worse. After the adjustment the body seems to be focusing more accurately than before I knocked the camera. The only downside is my 135mm F2.8 which was dead on is now slightly out. This could be because the body may have been "+1" on focus adjustment and the lens was "-1" so they cancelled each others misadjustment out. All my other lenses are focusing perfectly.

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Send your M10 to DAG for rangefinder alignment if you are uncomfortable doing it yourself. I sent mine and received it back in focus within 8 days, including the weekend. Excellent lead time.

 

You have to pay instead of the free service in NJ but well worth it to cut 3-4 weeks off the lead time.

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If this were any other brand, a user would make a video explaining the different types of adjustments that can be made and how to do them. But since this is Leica and nobody cares for video here, I guess we will continue to get confusing descriptions of vertical and horizontal adjauments and unclear description of which way to turn the hex key when adjusting the Rangefinder.

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