helged Posted April 5, 2017 Share #41 Posted April 5, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Q: Has the (approx) 400 USD/€ cost for the AF-fix been confirmed by Leica? Good to know... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 5, 2017 Posted April 5, 2017 Hi helged, Take a look here AF Drive Problems Leica S Lenses: Official Statement by Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted April 5, 2017 Share #42 Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) Guys you mis interpreted what I said which was in reply to Albert's post. Albert which manufacturer has ever done that? It seems an unrealistic expectation to me at least. That is in response to.....which manufacturer has published the ACTUAL AF breakdown incidence. But I get it that you are very dissatisfied and my opinion is different (and my experience with my lenses so far) that's fine. All the best. We understood, but the issue is how a company responds to any serious problem affecting many customers. Wouldn't it have been better if, for instance, Leica could have communicated, like Fuji or Olympus, all serial #s affected and repaired those units free of charge without time limit? Or at least been more transparent? Too bad when a dealer can tell us more than Leica. Maybe David Farkas should be named Strategy Chief. Jeff Edited April 5, 2017 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted April 5, 2017 Share #43 Posted April 5, 2017 We understood, but the issue is how a company responds to any serious problem affecting many customers. Wouldn't it have been better if, for instance, Leica could have communicated, like Fuji or Olympus, all serial #s affected and repaired those units free of charge without time limit? Or at least been more transparent? Too bad when a dealer can tell us more than Leica. Maybe David Farkas should be named Strategy Chief. Jeff I think the problem is that this is rather unpredictable. I expect all lenses produced up until now are with the old AF motor, and a certain percentage of them fails (I have heard a low single digit percentage). So a call-back would be ALL lenses produced, but since this (unpredictably) affects only some lenses, it is better to repair those who fall, than a full (and very expensive) callback. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 5, 2017 Share #44 Posted April 5, 2017 Then a time limit is ridiculous. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted April 5, 2017 Share #45 Posted April 5, 2017 Then a time limit is ridiculous. Jeff Do you have examples of other electronic products with eternal guarantee? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 5, 2017 Share #46 Posted April 5, 2017 Do you have examples of other electronic products with eternal guarantee? A time limit for repair is different than an 'eternal guarantee', and yes, I already posted examples from Fuji and Olympus, which had recalls without limitation, and for free. Even Leica had no time limit.....until yesterday. Are you sure you don't work for Leica? Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted April 5, 2017 Share #47 Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) A time limit for repair is different than an 'eternal guarantee', and yes, I already posted examples from Fuji and Olympus, which had recalls without limitation, and for free. Even Leica had no time limit.....until yesterday. Are you sure you don't work for Leica? Jeff Wish I did, in that case this would have been solved long ago ;-) I have actually been banging the door of my dealer about this for over a year. The fact that this has affected all S lenses, and even repaired lenses, leads me to believe that this can affect all lenses produced until now due to a faulty part, and that Leica is not able to give specific series numbers. Therefore the alternative is a full recall on all lenses, or a free repair on those affected. S-lenses are in the range of typically 6-8.000 usd. A pre-emptive repair costs 400. If you advertise a used lens with "pre-emptive repair of AF done", do you think you will get those 400 dollars back? My guess is that this discussion soon will turn to complaints about long waiting times for getting the pre-emptive repair.... Edited April 5, 2017 by erlingmm 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 5, 2017 Share #48 Posted April 5, 2017 Leica sold very expensive but defective products. Leica should repair those defects without limitations. That's my view. Do you not think that this approach would come back many-fold in dollars and brand reputation? I was going to commit to an S system, pending the official response... now I will not. Was it smart for them to save $200 on me? Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted April 5, 2017 Share #49 Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) Leica sold very expensive but defective products. Leica should repair those defects without limitations. That's my view. Do you not think that this approach would come back many-fold in dollars and brand reputation? I was going to commit to an S system, pending the official response... now I will not. Was it smart for them to save $200 on me? Jeff The damage is already done, prices are depleted, both on lenses and bodies. Now is a good time to buy, shell out the 400 dollars on upgrading the lens (sorry, I wrote 200, now corrected), and get a fantastic system for a decent price. Edited April 5, 2017 by erlingmm Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3D-D0T Posted April 5, 2017 Share #50 Posted April 5, 2017 Do you have examples of other electronic products with eternal guarantee? Nokia Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 5, 2017 Share #51 Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) The damage is already done, prices are depleted, both on lenses and bodies. Now is a good time to buy, shell out the 400 dollars on upgrading the lens (sorry, I wrote 200, now corrected), and get a fantastic system for a decent price.That's not the point.... at least for me. Customer service and respect still mean something. How much do you think an S008 will cost, if there is one.... and how many will pay full retail rather than used? This was an opportunity lto boost trust and sales.... and resale values. Jeff. Edited April 5, 2017 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atanabe Posted April 5, 2017 Share #52 Posted April 5, 2017 Do you work for Leica ? Thats two ridiculous comments in a row . Lets establish what the real problem is first . The original AF module (including the plastic gear that strips) was designed for the S2 . Some lenses did fail but most didn t . It was after the S 007 was released with faster AF and the firmware was updated on the S 006 . At this point the load became too much for the AF gear and it stripped frequently . New lenses that were stiff or moved a lot of elements failed early . The 120 and 24 failed frequently when brand new . I have 9 Leica S lenses . My dealer who has more experience with this issue than anyone on this forum (because he has a lot of S customers ) ...predicted which lenses would fail BEFORE we mounted them . Five of the lenses failed immediately ....another two after some modest use . Two more to go . It didn t bother me a lot because I wasn t dependent on these lenses ..but friends went thru more than a year WITH NO SOLUTION . Since equipment upgrades come at least every 4 years even in MF ....thats out of service for 25% of the useful life . (I will not rehash the fiasco Leica USA had over the last year due to their botched SAP implementation ). But they actually LOST my friends 70mm S lens . In the past ..my Leica S lenses were fixed in a reasonable 6-8 weeks and none of my repaired lenses have failed . I was not charged in any way and my dealer handled the whole mess . The NEW POLICY is a bad joke ...... 5 years from new ? the original S2 was being sold more than 5 years ago ....so all those original lenses were out of warranty ? Even though the failure was caused by the new AF speeds of the S 007 and updated S 006 . This is not a wear and tear issue ..its a AF module that will not handle the load . WAIT UNTIL THEY FAIL ..when you have a known DEFECT or pay for the fix . I have a nice trip to Ireland end of summer ...will be very unhappy if any of my S lenses fail . This level of customer abuse is unprecedented even for Leica ! Now they have backed themselves into a corner ..issuing the policy statement . Maybe next time they should speak with some of their STORE Managers rather than dreaming up policy around the expresso machine in Wetzler . FYI I have been using Leica gear since I was a teen ager ....a long time ago ... and have pretty much everything for the M,S,SL and Q . So I am vested in how they treat their customers . I was one of Roger's friends who had a 180 in service for over a year and a half of it's life. The first was when the AF motor failed, 4 months, second after the second fail, 3 months, third to tighten the front element group after they forgot to do so in previous repair 8 months. BTW this all happened on an S2 not 006 or 007 so it is not the body. I am an early adopter, buying into the system fairly early on in 2010 after they became available. So that means that all of my lenses are older than 5 years and now responsible to pay for a repair of poor engineering. It is not the cost but the principle, we should not be held liable to pay for a bad design. All of my lenses failed on start up, I made sure to have the power off before dismounting or mounting a lens. When I switched the camera on, the AF motor gave that gut wrenching "WHIIIIRRRRRRR" and that is all she wrote. I really love the images I get from my Leicas, but love only goes so far. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 5, 2017 Share #53 Posted April 5, 2017 Exactly....principle matters. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted April 5, 2017 Share #54 Posted April 5, 2017 Sorry, I can't comment. I know nothing about future S models, prices etc. I am happy that I finally have a credible system I can trust. You go with principles, I go with images... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atanabe Posted April 5, 2017 Share #55 Posted April 5, 2017 Sorry, I can't comment. I know nothing about future S models, prices etc. I am happy that I finally have a credible system I can trust. You go with principles, I go with images... No equipment = no images. When the S system first emerged, customer service was top notch. Before the AF issues with my 180 I had an exposure issue that caused a 1.5 stop overexposure even with the lens wide open and shutter manually set. They sent me a loaner camera and lens while the issue was addressed in Solms and no I did not have the "Platinum warranty". Two weeks later the camera and lens returned. That is what customer service is about, something that is needed now. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 5, 2017 Share #56 Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) Sorry, I can't comment. I know nothing about future S models, prices etc. I am happy that I finally have a credible system I can trust. You go with principles, I go with images...I have no problem making pics and prints, thanks (for over 40 years). There are choices to accommodate both gear needs and customer service principles. Jeff Edited April 5, 2017 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted April 6, 2017 Share #57 Posted April 6, 2017 Albert which manufacturer has ever done that? It seems an unrealistic expectation to me at least. I don't know of any other manufacturers but that is irrelevant given that, in this era of computers, big data, little data etc.., such a project should be relatively easy to undertake. Albert Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted April 6, 2017 Share #58 Posted April 6, 2017 Great they have a fix! I look forward to seeing what develops with the S. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted April 7, 2017 Share #59 Posted April 7, 2017 Sorry, I can't comment. I know nothing about future S models, prices etc. I am happy that I finally have a credible system I can trust. You go with principles, I go with images... aren't you going to add them to your ignore list? or ask them to go to your bash thread? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted April 7, 2017 Share #60 Posted April 7, 2017 Q: Has the (approx) 400 USD/€ cost for the AF-fix been confirmed by Leica? Good to know... No, I got the figure of David Farkas home page, but he is usually very well informed. I think the best way is to contact CS directly and ask for a quote. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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