Leica 5370: a Leica TL with an integrated viewfinder to be announced in 2017?

[euston]

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As I get older and less agile I welcome any help in shooting from below eye level. I would rather have a tilting screen than a built in EVF. Failing that, I’m happy with the add-on titling viewfinder which lets me shoot from waist level.

[lct]

As I get older and less agile I welcome any help in shooting from below eye level. I would rather have a tilting screen than a built in EVF. Failing that, I’m happy with the add-on titling viewfinder which lets me shoot from waist level.

 

A built-in tilting EVF would be the solution. Panasonic did it already if i'm not mistaken but i would welcome a tilting screen as well. 

Edited June 23, 2017 by lct

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[Belle123]

A built-in tilting EVF would be the solution. Panasonic did it already if i'm not mistaken but i would welcome a tilting screen as well.

 

And, camera gets bigger and bigger, clunkier, and more expensive. This reminds me of the long heated discussions that went on forever between the m240 and before the SL or m10 came out, as if forum members were designing it themselves. You get users wanting 'everything' to go into the camera. At some point you have to consider a cameras strengths and stick to them, it's identity, or you end up with a bus. Leica usually doesn't design that way. You want all these features, there are plenty of cameras out there that fit the bill. Leave the T alone in terms of form. That would be my wish, like they have done with the M. But, am happy with my two older Ts, one regular and the other converted to infrared. Not likely to upgrade for years to come. They aren't my main cameras, but I enjoy them very much. But I would hate to see future versions of the T morph into a Sony design. That wouldn't be a Leica anymore. And I doubt Leica would do that. Edited June 23, 2017 by Belle123

[lct]

And, camera gets bigger and bigger, clunkier, and more expensive. [...]

 

Why so? Modern mirrorless cameras like my Fuji X-E2 and Sony A7s mod are not big at all and the Panasonic camera i was referring to is perhaps even smaller. All are more affordable than their Leica counterparts needless to say. Just a matter of willing and competence if you ask me. YMMV.  

[Guest VVJ]

Why so? Modern mirrorless cameras like my Fuji X-E2 and Sony A7s mod are not big at all and the Panasonic camera i was referring to is perhaps even smaller. All are more affordable than their Leica counterparts needless to say. Just a matter of willing and competence if you ask me. YMMV.  

 

+1.  And I believe you are also underestimating the dimensions of the T with Visoflex.  It is more than 1cm wider than the Leica Q... which has one of the very best built-in EVFs...

[Belle123]

+1.  And I believe you are also underestimating the dimensions of the T with Visoflex.  It is more than 1cm wider than the Leica Q... which has one of the very best built-in EVFs...

The Q is a much much thicker camera. Is one of my other cameras. Something has to give in size, the more things are built in. More buttons too. Gets totally away from the T design which is minimalist, with a slick modern user interface.

 

I believe all we will see in the next version is updated sensor, updated electronics, and maybe possibility of better EVF option but that is less likely unless can be shared with the M10. Then again.....I might be wrong. Time will tell. Am sure has been decided a long time ago, so these wish list discussions are a little silly. What will be...... is already.

[Guest VVJ]

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The Q is a much much thicker camera. Is one of my other cameras. 

 

Except when compared with the T with Visoflex it really isn't... It is one of my cameras as well.  The Q is about 37mm wide (the EVF adds about 4mm in width).  

 

The T is about 25mm at its narrowest but if you measure from the front of the grip to the back of the Visoflex it is about 50mm...  Without the Visoflex it is much thinner, no discussion.

 

Enough on this...

Edited June 23, 2017 by JorisV

[Belle123]

Except when compared with the T with Visoflex it really isn't... It is one of my cameras as well.  The Q is about 37mm wide (the EVF adds about 4mm in width).  

 

The T is about 25mm at its narrowest but if you measure from the front of the grip to the back of the Visoflex it is about 50mm...  Without the Visoflex it is much thinner, no discussion.

 

Enough on this...

Well, we are talking about building in the EVF so measuring the T with the visoflex and comparing to the Q is apples and oranges. My Q actually is rather bulky and squarish, and doesn't fit as well in my bag. It's lightweight which I like. Between the two, the T is more enjoyable and versatile by a long shot. The Q is absolutely amazing for what it is. But something about it....not as enjoyable. Would sell it but I marvel at its IQ and sometimes is best for subject and speed over all my other gear. But if I am going out to enjoy taking photos, it is my last choice of all my gear. Leica threw everything they could into the Q design. It is a hit with people that want that. I prefer simplicity as it slows the photographic experience down and improves my shots. The day the TL morphs into a mini SL, won't be buying. It might.

 

Enough on this........agreed. What the TL will morph into has been decided.

[IkarusJohn]

I loved the T I had, but for the EVF.  It was like a carbuncle on the top of a sleek and beautiful camera.

 

I am a traditionalist - I like to hold my cameras up to my eye so I can see properly what I'm about to photograph.  The user interface of the T was great, and I liked the image quality (generally - a bit Sony(ish) - it would be great if the new sensor was more like the Q, M10 and SL).  I sold my T because the blackout just made it un-usable for me.

 

If the TL2 has a good quality EVF (it doesn't need to be the 4.4MP version out of the SL, though that would be nice) and little to no blackout, I'll be back in.  I doubt I'll buy any TL lenses, unless there is a standout lens.  I have M lenses already.  This camera would be my compact backup, pocketable and just a nice camera to carry around.

 

Incidentally, I haven't been following the lens releases - if there was one TL mount lens to get, what would it be?

[tom0511]

standout TL lenses are IMO 11-23,35/1.4, 60 Macro, 55-135

why use a T for M lenses and not a M body?

Why not use TL with Tl lenses and benefit from AF?

Edited June 28, 2017 by tom0511

[IkarusJohn]

I have the SL and two zooms.  Great system, but at times I want something smaller and lighter.

 

I also have an M-A and Monochrom, with half a dozen M lenses (21-28-50-75 Summiluxes, Noctilux & 50 Summitar).  This is a great system, but at this stage if I want to shoot colour I take the SL.  Lens compatibility is important to me, and I'm not that fussed about AF (particularly on wides).

 

So, a small, light pocketable camera would be nice; especially if it is compatible with my existing lenses (though I don't really see myself using a TL on SL lenses).  A TL with either 50 Summitar collapsable (roughly 75mm equivalent) or 28 Summaron (about 42mm equivalent) makes a nice pocketable camera.

 

But, as you say, one TL mount lens might be useful.  It looks like the 35 Summilux-TL (52.50mm equivalent field of view) might be the way to go, despite its size.  There would be little point in an AF wide, and the 35 Summilux-TL seems to have greater flexibility.  The macro would also appeal, I guess.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

[IkarusJohn]

One factor will be the 35 Summicron-SL. 

 

I tend not to use 35mm (I sold my 35 Summilux-M ASPH).  But, if I get an L mount AF 35mm lens, there seem to be two choices - the TL Summilux or the SL Summicron.  I know I lose a stop, but I gain a full frame lens I can use with both cameras.  Size and price difference may be the deciding factor.

 

The 28 Summilux-M on the TL (42mm field of view) would be a useful set up ...

[Louis]

One factor will be the 35 Summicron-SL. 

 

I tend not to use 35mm (I sold my 35 Summilux-M ASPH).  But, if I get an L mount AF 35mm lens, there seem to be two choices - the TL Summilux or the SL Summicron.  I know I lose a stop, but I gain a full frame lens I can use with both cameras.  Size and price difference may be the deciding factor.

 

The 28 Summilux-M on the TL (42mm field of view) would be a useful set up ...

 

I was very pleasantly surprised by 18-56. The only problem with TL  zooms is that they are quite slow. But I enjoy using my T with MF lenses and I have been very happy so far with my Nikkor glasses.

 

BTW, Ulrich who has some close connections with leica AG and owes almost all Leica cameras and lenses, made a test with 18-56 TL on his SL. You can see the result here:

 

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59743904 

[JPP1]

 There would be little point in an AF wide,.

 

Sure enough, AF is not the point here. But, due to the 1.5 crop factor, none of your M lenses can be used as an UWA.

 

So the 11-23, which BTW is an excellent lens, could be a good addition to your M gear.

[Louis]

Since I posted these images way before the new T/TL camera was and will be announced, and even long before that in another site; do you think I can ask for a copy right if the design of the new Leica TL  comes close to my design?

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270816-leica-5370-a-leica-tl-with-an-integrated-viewfinder-to-be-announced-in-2017/?p=3243471

[IkarusJohn]

Sure enough, AF is not the point here. But, due to the 1.5 crop factor, none of your M lenses can be used as an UWA.

 

So the 11-23, which BTW is an excellent lens, could be a good addition to your M gear.

True enough, but if I want ultra-wide I'll use either my SL or an M. The compact I'm looking for is a light, convenient walk about. I'd likely use an M lense most of the time, but to have one TL lens would let me make the most of what the camera offers.

 

The 11-23 would be an interesting addition. The 23mm Summicron is a useful size, but not as flexible as the 35 Summilux. I wonder what the size and weight difference will be between the SL 35 Summicron and TL 35 Summilux.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

The TL 35 1.4 isn't that big. I think and SL f2 will absolutely dwarf it.

 

It's far too late but my preference is to keep the clip on EVF. I like that I can share it with my M10 and T. I like that the T is a grab and go camera. A little less serious but still with great lenses. Being able to tilt the EVF is seriously useful to me.

 

Gordon

[IkarusJohn]

Yes, I can see the appeal, Gordon. Not having an M10, I don't really need or want the EVF. Looks like the EVF will be built in on the TL2. I like using the iPhone App for difficult or remote pictures.

 

I think you're right about the 35 Summicron-SL. While there is appeal having one 35mm which works both full frame and APS-C, carrying around a large SL lens with a TL2 hanging off the back of it rather defeats the purpose ...

[Belle123]

In case someone didn't notice, Leica just announced a huge price drop on the SL. If I was in the market to buy the new TL2, I would give it a long wait as they will drop the price within a year and a half significantly. This seems to be a new and disturbing pattern with Leica. Am no longer buying 'new'. I can wait.

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

Well, it's only in the US where the currency has recovered somewhat against others. Plus it's 18 months in so mid cycle not early on. About the same time every other brand drops prices to stimulate sales.

 

If a new TL comes and I like it I'd rather use it for 18 months than worry about depreciation, which will happen. For others where waiting means they don't need to go into debt to afford it, waiting makes perfect sense. Other will be perfectly happy with what they have now.

 

A 24MP TL with better AF will mean I can sell off a bunch of gear. Although I won't want to. But I need to simplify and the TL2 will allow me to do that.

 

Gordon