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How much developer to use when developing one role of 35mm film in a Patterson two-tank system?


RayD28

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Using one role of 24 Ilford HP5+ 400 at box speed using DDX.  Not pushing and plan to use standard chemical ratios.  Do I fill the tank and use the same ratios as if developing two roles?  This is my first try at home developing.  Thanks for your advice.  

Edited by Raycpa
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I'm using masive developing chart (google it) to find developing time and mixing ratio for any film, developer. Inford has PDF as well for DD-X.

Then I put reel into the tank and cover it with extra one, one and half centimeters of water above the reel. I empty this water from developing tank to the measuring cylinder, same I use to mix developer. It shows me the amount of working mix.

I divide this number by ratio number (water) plus one (developer) in developing chart. The result is how much developer I need to use.

1:4 for DD-X. 350ml in the tank with covered reel. 350:5 is 70 ml of DD-X. 70 of DD-X stock plus four times 70 of water for working mix.

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I always fill the tank for the reasons Pico states, but in the past always used replentished working solution instead of one-shot, so it didn't waste developer. Now that I've slowed down to one roll occasionally with Rodinal I picked up a 1-reel tank, so it only needs 250 ml per roll.

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Same ratio obviously but you don't need to fill the tank. Just make sure you cover the entire reel with solution and put the second reel on top.

 

Not if one uses inversion agitation. Heard of surge patterns? Leaving the empty upper reel above the developer leaves a huge cavity of air so that the developer surges through the reels and film. That's never good.

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I am going to shoot another roll and just develop two rolls.  I have to get some stop bath anyway.  I thought about just using water but that would be inconsistent with how I'll probably do things in the future.  

 

I appreciate everyone's input.  

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Invert and swirl, invert and swirl. Be slightly generous with your developer, but the price of DD-X isn't something to ignore and making double the amount for one film is the sort of advice that can only come from somebody who doesn't use it.

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If I only develop one roll of film within the Paterson two-reel system, I always use less solution than when I develop two rolls of film at once in the tank. With one roll of film, I stick to 300 ml each for developer, stopper, fixer, and hyper wash. I always add the reel with the film on the bottom and place an empty reel on top of it to avoid that agitation/inversion pushes the reel up during the process.

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Same ratio obviously but you don't need to fill the tank. Just make sure you cover the entire reel with solution and put the second reel on top.

 

I use enough to cover the bottom reel and an empty reel on top with stainless Nikkor tanks.  Invert two times in 5 sec every 30 sec.   Perfect contrast and never a developing mark.  Basically this is same as 4x5 film where we pull up, tip to drain,  replace in developer.   

 

If you were to look up Kodaks developing instructions for small tank,i.e. one reel,  they say 5 to 7 inversion in 5 sec.   Times are exactly the same. 

 

Marks etc are from not enough agitation because developer is not replenished in some areas.  

 

People who recommend non standard developing are doing a disservice.  

 

The way a plastic tank works is the developer runs into the vacant space in the top and then back down whether the tank is full or not.  

 

You can not over agitate, only agitate in a pattern rather than random so MAYBE you set up some areas that are not replenished.

 

Hatchetmann is 100% correct.

Edited by tobey bilek
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I recommend getting a one-reel tank rather than using a two-reel tank with a half load of developer. It just works better. 

 

In my dotage, I've dispensed with all the fuss. ALL of my film is now processed the same way: using an Agfa Rondix 35, Rondinax U, or Rondinax 60 daylight loading tank. They are continuous agitation systems so that's all I use. No inversions, etc; just rotary agitation. 

 

- Developer is 200ml of HC110 mixed at the ratio 1:50 (4ml added to 196ml water). 

- Fixer is Ilford Rapid Fixer mixed 1:4 (40ml added to 160ml water)

 

I'll process up to three rolls of 135-36 or 120 film in that chemistry. 1 min water pre-wash, 8 min develop, 1 min stop-wash, 6 min fix, 6 changes of plain water with 1 min agitation each for wash with one drop of wetting agent added on the last wash bath. Hang to dry and squeegee with wet fingers. 

 

I love the negatives this system produces. I've processed APX25, Tri-X, Neopan 100, Delta 100, Delta 400, etc all the exact same way. Minor variations in EI to accommodate the process; all come out great. 

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  • 1 month later...

For loading reels I found the best way was to use an Ilford leader retriever tool to pull the leader out in daylight, load this onto the reel then put the whole thing in the bag and roll the rest onto the reel. Much easier than trying to do it all in the dark. I'm an amateur though, I expect the pros will tell you to do it the other way!

 

www.robertpoolephotography.com

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In theory using only enough developer to cover one reel should shorten the time.    Depending on my mood,  with Nikor stainless tanks I use two reels with the bottom one loaded and only enough developer to cover the film, 8 oz .    I agitate by inversion.

 

Result is exactly the same as single reel tank inverted the same way.  EXACTLY.

 

Now if you believe all the internet nonsense about slow gentile agitation,  you are not replenishing completely and a lot of empty headroom will cause more agitation and more replenishment and more contrast.

 

What does make a 10% difference in time is 4 inversions once per minute and 2 inversions every 30 seconds.

 

Yea I worked all this out very carefully.

 

The best thing about 1 film in a two reel tank is absolutely perfect density across the whole neg, no marks, no nothing. Perfect.   The empty space at the top of plastic Patterson  will do the same thing.  It is near impossible to screw up.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I always use the right amount per roll irrespective of how big the tank, its written how much per roll on the bottom of the tank.

I don't put a blank reel above. Maybe I am lucky but my negs always come out looking good to me. My reels fit the spindle correctly and don't move around and I attach the funnel to keep everything nice and light tight. If your reels are 'loose' on the spindle you may feel differently.

 

I don't see any reason to buy an additional single reel tank, it makes absolutely zero difference, the tanks are designed to be used with different content or they wouldn't say how much per roll on the base.

 

I use Ilford method, and DDX/Ilfosol 3 but now using Xtol as it's much cheaper and easier to ship. You can feel/hear the liquid return downwards after you invert, especially with larger tanks.

 

Down/up/pat pat, no need to rush, and be consistent in how you do it, then you can modify your inversions if there is some problem.

 

I definitely recommend darkroom reel loading if it is possible to create a dark space. Its conserably easier than messing around in sweaty changing bags.

 

My take on Paterson tanks/reels is that they were purpose built for this process, read the manual and develop with satisfaction!

Keep it simple OP and good luck, it really is very easy, no need to over complicate.

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Buying a single reel tank to supplement your two reel tank is not a deal breaker, but if you prefer, most two reelers have a collar to secure the first reel on its own in the two reel tank. No need to use an empty reel on top.

 

Absolute consistency in your adopted process is the major factor in absolute outcome for your negs. The fact that so many posters are giving varying advice is testament to this. They are all different, but consistent within themselves. That is the major secret.

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It is really simple: When using the Paterson tank for two reels, I put the reel with rolled film on the bottom and put the empty reel on top. This avoids any shifts of the bottom reel on the center pole. If I use the tank with one film, I use 300 ml of solution, for two rolls of film (two reels used), I am using 500 ml. Always works. 

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Buying a single reel tank to supplement your two reel tank is not a deal breaker, but if you prefer, most two reelers have a collar to secure the first reel on its own in the two reel tank. No need to use an empty reel on top.

 

 

In a two reel Paterson tank with just one reel in it, the reel can potentially shift on the center pole during inversions. 

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I don't get why you need the second empty reel. Paterson tanks have a circular collar to firmly hold the single reel down in a two reel tank. Why dirty a clean reel that may be needed before it is washed and dried. Not uncommonly I process films separately and need the other reel perfectly dry for immediate loading. Not rocket science.

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