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meerec

Any film makers with SL here?

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https://vimeo.com/208254533


 


A short video clip I made on SL with Summarit 35/2.4 in L-log and graded in FCP X as Arri Log C footage. Wanted to finally see what can be done with those L-log files.


Not bad results, looks really promising.


 


Anyone here has any experience with making films on SL? How do you capture the footage, how do you colour grade later? What LUT do you use?


I've looked at buying some extra LUT loaders and use some custom LUTs but decided that it's not really needed. I can work with what's in the Apple Final Cut Pro X quite effectively it seems.


How about you?


Edited by meerec

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I've only been experimenting, as I will need video for recording sports and shows, but it is quite addictive.  The Arri Log-C LUT seems to work well in the low-light setting of your rain clip.  How well does it handle a transition from low light to bright light, for example interior to exterior moves.  I have tried hand-grading Leica L-log footage with shutter and aperture set for a bright setting, and my results looked good from ISO 50 up to ISO 800 or so.  David Farkas provides examples on his RedDotForum blog that are shot moving around in Miami using the SL. He grades in Premier using an Arri LUT followed by some hand-tuning.

 

scott 

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From what I've seen the Arri LUT likes it more when the footage is underexposed. Well, I like it more too. Anything "correctly" exploded in L-log seems to be then overexposed and hard to tune. So it's one lesson I've learnt. It is difficult to see what you're recording with SL in L-log as the screen at the back and the EVF do not offer a real time LUT translation, everything is flat and hard to apply judgement. Or my technique is lacking. Need to experiment myself more, and that's what I'm planning.

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Or get external monitor that has lut build in so you can see exactly what your are shooting.

Edited by AlexP

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Or get external monitor that has lut build in so you can see exactly what your are shooting.

Yes that is an expensive option.

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Are LUTs destructive edits, or can they be added and subtracted so that only the net change is applied to the source file, as in working with a RAW still file?  I have heard elsewhere that the Arri-L LUT pushes the highlights out above 8 bits when you start with the Leica L-Log, but if you can override that in post, it may be a good starting point.  But if the highlights are lost in passing through the LUT, not so good.  

 

I like the idea of not loading up the SL with any extra gear to get good video, but that's hard.  Adding an external recorder to do 10 bit capture, including synch sound with good microphones, it's a slippery slope.  But not as steep as lusting after the next few SL lenses or even Cine lenses.  An external monitor that also records HDVI to an SSD inside and has a compact preamp/mixer layer underneath is pretty cost/size optimal for a big step up in quality.  That's about $2000, plus $500 or more for a wireless mike and receiver.  And now you need a frame to hold it all in positions where you can get at things.  I took one baby step, purchasing a preamp/mixer that attaches below the camera, and a few cables, to use some studio condenser mikes that I had around from a much older project.  I tried using a passive mixer, but the SL's preamps did not seem strong enough, and good recorded sound (like the rain sounds in the OP's clip) really helps.

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Meerec,

 

thanks for posting.

It looks like the blacks are crushed with heavy contrast which  look good but hide any noise issues .

 

Which shutter speed were you using? ISO?

 

I still have to test my SL with my old cine lenses in APS C mode , anyone has played with an external 4k recorder?

 

Best, Jean-Marc.

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Not done it yet, but hope to get to doing some movie work soon. Which reminds me: I need the audio input unit and an external recorder.

 

The videos I've made with the SL so far are very short, one take exercises.

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Not done it yet, but hope to get to doing some movie work soon. Which reminds me: I need the audio input unit and an external recorder.

 

 

If you are going to use an external recorder, why do you want the audio input unit?  10 bit HDMI to an external recorder uses an HDMI cable, which is also an extra, but out of a different socket.  I would think you are better off sending the audio track directly to the external recorder, and monitoring with the headphone output from the recorder.

 

scott

Edited by scott kirkpatrick

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Meerec,

 

thanks for posting.

It looks like the blacks are crushed with heavy contrast which  look good but hide any noise issues .

 

Which shutter speed were you using? ISO?

 

I still have to test my SL with my old cine lenses in APS C mode , anyone has played with an external 4k recorder?

 

Best, Jean-Marc.

Jean-Marc, first must say it was just a quick and dirty test, hand held and then stabilised the awful camera shake in FCPX, with the purpose of testing the LUT, nothing else. So yes, aestheticly and technically, and post processing wasn't careful at all as I wasn't planning to share this and be judged :-). The blacks are crashed too much in that scene, for example, but not by the LUT, rather my exposure and colour grading later. This is a good news.

As for parameters, I was shooting with 1/50sec, f/8, auto ISO, EV -2.5 and 24fps.

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If you are going to use an external recorder, why do you want the audio input unit?  10 bit HDMI to an external recorder uses an HDMI cable, which is also an extra, but out of a different socket.  I would think you are better off sending the audio track directly to the external recorder, and monitoring with the headphone output from the recorder.

 

scott

That is true, the audio adapter is for audio, so if you use the external audio recorder you may not need it. I bought it though too, because I'm planning to use a wireless mic and record dialog through it directly to the SL. Then use the external audio recorder for all other ambient sounds.

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How did you do your sound for the Rain clip?  I figure if you were shooting from a porch under cover the camera mikes would work quite well.  But outdoors they are very wind sensitive.

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Jean-Marc, first must say it was just a quick and dirty test, hand held and then stabilised the awful camera shake in FCPX, with the purpose of testing the LUT, nothing else. So yes, aestheticly and technically, and post processing wasn't careful at all as I wasn't planning to share this and be judged :-). The blacks are crashed too much in that scene, for example, but not by the LUT, rather my exposure and colour grading later. This is a good news.

As for parameters, I was shooting with 1/50sec, f/8, auto ISO, EV -2.5 and 24fps.

 

Sure, my intention was not to judge, thanks for sharing your experiments , it's highly appreciated.

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If you are going to use an external recorder, why do you want the audio input unit?  10 bit HDMI to an external recorder uses an HDMI cable, which is also an extra, but out of a different socket.  I would think you are better off sending the audio track directly to the external recorder, and monitoring with the headphone output from the recorder.

 

scott

  

That is true, the audio adapter is for audio, so if you use the external audio recorder you may not need it. I bought it though too, because I'm planning to use a wireless mic and record dialog through it directly to the SL. Then use the external audio recorder for all other ambient sounds.

Exactly. I don't know that, as I learn what I want to do with this stuff, I'll be using an external recorder all the time, and I want the ability to input with different microphones.

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Sure, my intention was not to judge, thanks for sharing your experiments , it's highly appreciated.

 

 

I know, JMF, I just feel embarrassed to post crap, doesn't do well for my self esteem 

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How did you do your sound for the Rain clip?  I figure if you were shooting from a porch under cover the camera mikes would work quite well.  But outdoors they are very wind sensitive.

 

Oh Scott -- very easy 

in FCPX you detach recorded audio, and attach one from the Apple stock ...

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I still have to test my SL with my old cine lenses in APS C mode , anyone has played with an external 4k recorder?

 

 

Hi Jean-Marc -- I haven't played with a 4K recorder but have had a good experience using the Atomos Ninja HD recorder. I used it with my SL, it was easy, the HDMI output was clean, and captured ProRes 4.2.2 I could use immediately at FCPX. So I expect there won't be any problems capturing 4K to something like Atomos Shogun or whatever they make today. The cost of acquiring the recorder is the barrier unless you have a project that will pay for it.

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Are LUTs destructive edits, or can they be added and subtracted so that only the net change is applied to the source file, as in working with a RAW still file?  I have heard elsewhere that the Arri-L LUT pushes the highlights out above 8 bits when you start with the Leica L-Log, but if you can override that in post, it may be a good starting point.  But if the highlights are lost in passing through the LUT, not so good.  

 

 

 

Hi Scott ... LUTs are not destructive edits. You can add them and remove from clips at will, even if other edits exists later in the clips in the timeline. The LUT can be applied in two different ways in FCPX. If it's an out-of-the-box LUT supplied by Apple, it gets applied to the imported clip in your assets. Other, third party LUTs, need to be loaded by a third party LUT loader as FCPX does not allow adding additional LUTs (easily). But then those third party LUTs are applied as filter presets to the timeline clips, not to the imported clips // very different workflow placement and approach.

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I use mine daily mainly for video, I underexpose by a a stop when using Log and have the settings all to standard, use the auto correct then apply a LUT.

I tested the GH5 today side by side to see if the Panasonic sensor in both cameras would colour match, I had 2 mins with the GH5 so didn't get to set the settings, it's was 4K log 25p here is the footage https://youtu.be/oIKH_qORvc8

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