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Been offered a Leicaflex SL2. Will 80-200R ROM lens fit?


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#1 wlaidlaw

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 12:09

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I have been offered at a good price (estate sale) an SL2 Leicaflex in apparently reasonably condition, although I am guessing it would benefit from a CLA. However the only R lenses I have left are an 80-200 Vario Elmar-R ROM lens and an 80mm Hartblei Tilt-shift in R mount. Will these lenses fit on the SL2? I have no reflex Leica cameras in my collection and feel I should have at least one example. 

 

Wilson



#2 halo

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 13:01

If lenses are "R-only" without the two Leicaflex-Cams they will not fit. They have to be 3-Cam lenses: two "Smooth Cams" (for Leicaflex) and one "Step Cam" (for R). Exeption: The Hartblei will have only one small metal block inside the bajonett as you dont have full aperture metering and automatic diaphragm.  So no aperture information has to be communicated to the body. This will be the same as with the PC Super-Angulon-R, which can be used with the Leicaflex as well as with all R bodies.

 

My suggestion: buy a contemporary Summicron for a moderate price an everything will fit.



#3 TomB_tx

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 13:31

I believe the SL2 used both of the ramped cams (the SL did not), and a ROM lens doesn't have them. The R mount alsochanged the bayonet slightly on lenses that wouldn't work on the Leicaflex models so they couldn't be attached. I once had my 2-cam 135 modified to 3 cam by an independent tech, who also changed the mount, so then it would' fit my SL. (I removed and milled the mount so it would fit again.)

#4 wlaidlaw

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 15:17

Thanks Guys. I have also been offered an R5, albeit not in as quite nice condition as the SL2 but less money as well. Your info makes me more inclined to buy that. I am not going to buy any more 50mm/5cm/2" lenses. I think at last count I had nine of them. If I was going to buy any lens, it would be the Vario Elmarit R 35-70 ASPH or the 28-90 Vario Elmarit R ASPH, except I see the prices of these lenses have gone astronomical (£11,000+ for the 35-70). It makes the equally good Zeiss Contax MMJ Vario Sonnar CX/Y 28-85/f3.3 look like the bargain of the century, especially as I already have one. Sadly as the flange focal distance of CX/Y lenses is shorter than Leica R, no adapter is possible. For the other Vario Elmars, I believe the 35-70 f4 Kyocera is a tad better than the 35-70 f3.5 Minolta lens, from what I recall from reading Erwin Puts' review of the mid range Vario Elmars. 

 

Wilson



#5 masjah

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 15:19

If lenses are "R-only" without the two Leicaflex-Cams they will not fit. They have to be 3-Cam lenses: two "Smooth Cams" (for Leicaflex) and one "Step Cam" (for R). Exeption: The Hartblei will have only one small metal block inside the bajonett as you dont have full aperture metering and automatic diaphragm.  So no aperture information has to be communicated to the body. This will be the same as with the PC Super-Angulon-R, which can be used with the Leicaflex as well as with all R bodies.

 

My suggestion: buy a contemporary Summicron for a moderate price an everything will fit.

 

Being very pedantic, I think I am right in thinking that the PC Super Angulon can be use on the Leicaflex SL and SL2, but not the original Leicaflex (as well as R bodies). I suspect that this is because it carries a vestigial fixed version of cam 2 and cam 3 (combined into a single piece I think).


Best wishes.

John

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#6 halo

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 16:02

@ Wilson

 

The SL2 was the last of all mechanical Leicaflexes, designed and built in Wetzlar. Uncomparable with the disguised Minolta R5 (as well as RR3 till R7)!

 

 

@ John

The small pole is not a combination of cam 2 and 3. You can see it in the picture at the top. There is no other cam. You can use the lens with correct working aperture metering on any SL, SL2 or R3 - 9. I am not shure if it will fit the fiest Leicaflex.

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#7 halo

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 16:03

And so the PC Super-Angulon R fits on the Leicaflex SL2

 

 

 

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#8 masjah

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 16:28

Halo, yes, sorry, you are quite right, I don't think they are combined here (though they are in other lenses). The little pole is what I think is termed a fixed or vestigial R cam, simply to zero the camera meter properly when no aperture information is available. I may be wrong, but think that the circular black strip (anticlockwise from this on your picture) plays the equivalent role of a vestigial second cam, doing the same job for the SL and SL2. The Leica booklet for this lens implies clearly that the original Leicaflex cannot be used (at least not without modification).


Best wishes.

John

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#9 wlaidlaw

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 16:41

I am a bit ambivalent about a Leicaflex SL2. Back in the 1980's, I had the world's worst "Friday" SL2. It was unsold old stock when I bought it and came with a 6 month dealer warranty. They really regretted that! I forget if it was after the third or fourth visit to Leica Service UK for various expensive problems: shutter, wind on, film counter, metering and so on, that the dealer pleaded with me to take an ex-display but like new Contax RTS II with 50/f1.4 Sonnar lens in place of the Leica. I sold that to a Russian friend in 2006 and the last I heard, it was still working perfectly.

 

Here is a picture of the back of my 80-200/f4 Vario Elmarit-R. My guess is that this will not fit on an SL2.

 

Wilson

 

 

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#10 masjah

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 16:48

Wilson, you are correct. What you've got there is  the ROM chip to give information to an R8 or R9, the R cam (AKA the 3rd cam) for R3 onwards and the aperture stop-down lever. As soon as you see a ROM chip, you should keep it away from any Leicaflex, unless modified.


Edited by masjah, 17 February 2017 - 16:50.

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Best wishes.

John

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#11 spydrxx

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 16:58

You could have a good independent, like DAG, modify the lens to a 3 cam. I actually loved my SL2 much better than any R3 or R8, although after about 10 years sold it when I realized my Canon T90 and L lenses exceeded it in almost every way.


Edited by spydrxx, 17 February 2017 - 17:00.

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#12 halo

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 17:36

 "I may be wrong, but think that the circular black strip (anticlockwise from this on your picture) plays the equivalent role of a vestigial second cam, doing the same job for the SL and SL2."

 

I think that this is not right. When I look through the mirror housing from behind, I can see that the lever inside the body is only slightly touched (maybe even without contact) by this metal strip but not actuated, so no information is transfered to the metering system.


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#13 wildlightphoto

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 23:56

.... I may be wrong, but think that the circular black strip (anticlockwise from this on your picture) plays the equivalent role of a vestigial second cam, doing the same job for the SL and SL2....

 

 

Correct.  The 400mm and 560mm f/6.8 Telyt R-mount tube has the same strip.  It's essentially a null cam that tells the light meter that the light it sees it the light the film is going to get (i.e., no auto-diaphragm).


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#14 George Furst

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 13:14

I am a bit ambivalent about a Leicaflex SL2. Back in the 1980's, I had the world's worst "Friday" SL2. It was unsold old stock when I bought it and came with a 6 month dealer warranty. They really regretted that! I forget if it was after the third or fourth visit to Leica Service UK for various expensive problems: shutter, wind on, film counter, metering and so on, that the dealer pleaded with me to take an ex-display but like new Contax RTS II with 50/f1.4 Sonnar lens in place of the Leica. I sold that to a Russian friend in 2006 and the last I heard, it was still working perfectly.
 
Here is a picture of the back of my 80-200/f4 Vario Elmarit-R. My guess is that this will not fit on an SL2.
 
Wilson


Please remember that the first 100 of this 80-200/f4 Vario Elmarit-R did not have the ROM contact strip. I have one of these lens and if it is this one that he has, it may work on the Leica SL2 camera. It is one of my favorite lens and an excellent performer. Only negative is weight at a little over a kg, but it is beautifully constructed.

George A. Furst


#15 Hugh 38

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 14:10

Do not  take  a  ROM  lens   near  to  a  SL2 , SL or  original  Leicaflex. If  you try   and  fit it   you  may  jam  the  thing  and  cause  all  sorts of problems . The  SL2 and  SL   were  built  to   use   3  cam lenses , and  will work  with  3   cam  lenses .  The   original  Leicaflex  was  designed  with the   1  cam   lens   but  will also   work with 2  and  3   cam  lenses.

 

 

I  have  used  a   28PC  on  an original  Leicaflex. I   took the  battery  out  and  left off the   cover   which  sits  proud  of  the  housing. I  used  a  Weston Master  for the  light  .  The  focusing   screen   was not   designed  with the   28PC in mind  so  it  can be  hard . The more   you  shift  the  lens  the  harder it  gets to   focus ,  but  it  takes   pictures.  I  have  also  put   a  28PC on  an  SL  and  SL2 .



#16 wlaidlaw

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 18:29

Hopefully a forum member wants to buy my 80-200 Vario Elmar-R ROM lens, so that should leave me with some Paypal credit. The lens I would probably want to buy is the 28PC, as the only TS lens I have is the Hartblei 80mm, which is not a good performer on any camera. It is really a bit of a waste of time to couple the brilliant and beautifully made 360º tilt shift mechanism on the Hartblei Super rotator with such poor optics. 

 

Wilson



#17 masjah

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 19:48

Hopefully a forum member wants to buy my 80-200 Vario Elmar-R ROM lens, so that should leave me with some Paypal credit. The lens I would probably want to buy is the 28PC, as the only TS lens I have is the Hartblei 80mm, which is not a good performer on any camera. It is really a bit of a waste of time to couple the brilliant and beautifully made 360º tilt shift mechanism on the Hartblei Super rotator with such poor optics. 

 

Wilson

 

Wilson, at the risk of stating the obvious, do be aware that the 28/2.8 PC is shift but not tilt. (This is fine if its intended use is architectural, as distinct from studio or landscape, where the plane of focus needs to be rotated away from the vertical.)  

 

There is of course also a lovely more modern Nikon T/S wide angle which additionally has a linked aperture!


Best wishes.

John

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#18 wlaidlaw

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 20:34

Wilson, at the risk of stating the obvious, do be aware that the 28/2.8 PC is shift but not tilt. (This is fine if its intended use is architectural, as distinct from studio or landscape, where the plane of focus needs to be rotated away from the vertical.)  

 

There is of course also a lovely more modern Nikon T/S wide angle which additionally has a linked aperture!

 

John,

 

It would be for a lens to use on film if I decide to get another SL2. It would be for architecture, so only the shift needed. For a Tilt Shift for the SL, I would probably go for either the Canon 17 or 24mm lens. 

 

Wilson


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#19 gbealnz

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 22:49

From your first post inwardly I said to myself, "grab it".

 

I'm in a similar spot, I have a nice old black SL, bequeathed to me by an old friend. I located a nice 2 cam first version 50 Summicron, and it is a nice combo.

Since then I scratched an itch I had been putting off for a while. I picked up a nice R8, and also an R28-70 (ROM). Mistakenly I figured I could use the 28-70 on both the R8 and the SL, but was wrong, it will not fit the SL.

Then I found a nice R35/2, which is 3 cam, this at least fits both cameras.

 

Part of me says, stash the SL and 50 Summicron, get it out on the odd occasion, but just use the R8 for most use. And with the 28-70 it is indeed a convenient machine to use. I often have fun with just the 35/2 on it as well. Compared to the M6 and 35 Summicron I also have and use though it is huge, a beast, but I do like the SLR use. For travel (Europe again later this year) it's a no-brainer, M6 all the way, but for round home, having fun, the R8 is nice, real nice.

 

So in respect of your quandary, the SL2 would be a nice acquisition, but it comes with it's own built in headaches, mainly (like my situation) the difficulty in compatibility with ROM/non-ROM lenses. I've addressed that in my own mind, buy only 3 cam lenses, and put up with the 28-70 being R8 only (or sell it I suppose).

 

Whatever you do, you'll have fun.

Gary



#20 wlaidlaw

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 00:03

I had a friend from France drop in for tea this afternoon, while he is over visiting an unwell relative. We are both long time Leica aficionados and inevitably got round to discussing recent acquisitions and proposed acquisitions. I mentioned I was thinking of buying a Leicaflex SL2 I had been offered but was not sure about a lens for it, as my R ROM lenses will not fit. My friend looked at me in horror, as if I had asked when he last went to a black mass and said: " Mais ce n'est pas un appareil télémetrique (but it is not a rangefinder)". He reached into his jacket pocket, brought out one of the tiny Leica O series replicas and handed it to me. I had never seen one close up before. I replied "well neither is that" however, all thoughts of an SL2 were immediately driven out of my mind.  It was love at first sight and only 5 days after Valentine's Day! As soon as he had left, I was straight on to the internet searching and very quickly struck lucky. One of the major UK Leica dealers has (had) one in stock at a very reasonable price, much less than people were asking on Fleabay. Hopefully it should be on its way to me tomorrow. This is the dealer's photo of it and it looks like new. 

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Edited by wlaidlaw, 20 February 2017 - 00:05.

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