Switching from DSLR to M10 ?

[Magic]

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Hello,

 

I just registered here - my name is Jurgen and I am living in Abu Dhabi/United Arab Emirates.

So far I am using a Nikon D4s with a few lenses and I am actually happy with the camera and/or the output. However, the very recent holiday brought up the question, why carrying all this heavy gear (the 70-200 I didn't use at all for example) ?...I guess you know what I mean.

Since I also own a Leica X2 and my family history is a bit heavier on the Leica side, I am interested in the M10. I don't want to have both cameras and I don't use video at all, so if I decide to get the M10, the D4s+lenses/accessories have to go.

My biggest concern now is, since I have never had any M-model in my hands or even taken a single shot with it, the focussing. Most of my photos with the DSLR's are landscape, buildings or not-so-fast-moving objects. Every now and then I do take shots from sports events.

Of course it will be a learning curve but I don't want to blow US$ 20-25k (including lenses). This brings me to my next question....what would be a proper lense-portfolio ? From what I've read/seen so far, 21mm, 50mm and 90mm would cover a good range but I am open for any tips/recommendations.

Unfortunately we don't have a shop here where I can rent the M10 and 1-3 lenses, so it would be a jump into the cold water.

 

I am not in a hurry and a colleague of mine will get his M10 end of this month - so I hope I can take some shots and see how it feels.


Thank you very much for your replies/input.

Greetings, Jurgen

[Rambot-M]

Hi Juergen, welcome. I am waiting for my M10 and I am a first time Leica buyer as well. So I will let the experienced folks here answer your questions.

 

I just wanted to let you know, you might already be aware of it, there is a very long wait time for the M10. So don't plan to do anything to your D4S setup before actually getting an M10. [emoji106]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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[Jeff S]

Good idea to wait for your friend to lend you the camera.  But you could also buy or borrow a used M8 or M9 to get the RF experience and see if you bond with it; some do, some don't.  You likely wouldn't lose any money on a prudent purchase if you later sell.

 

Note that the RF lends itself to focal lengths 28-90mm (without external VF aids).  Many people use complementary systems (some DSLR) for broader needs, unless their M is equipped with EVF (as in M240 or M10)....even then it's not typically a 'sports' action camera or one that can fully substitute for a DSLR, depending on one's needs.

 

Jeff

Edited February 14, 2017 by Jeff S

[digitalfx]

probably a great idea to buy a used M8 or M9 just to play with it and make sure you are comfortable with a rangefinder before making the switch. You can always sell it later if you decide you like the experience. Its a major shift from a dslr...just the change to manual focus alone is huge, but then you have to learn how to use a rangefinder.

 

Its a liberating experience imo, and brings back the joy of photography...but it is a huge change if you've never used a rf before.

[zmcm]

Hi Jurgen, I have already my M10, I moved from DSLR Nikon to Leica M262 some months ago and now from the M262 to M10. I can tell you that this is a conpletly diferent approach to photography and for those who have been working on the DLSR side it is not so simple to move to the Leica side, it take some time to think like a Leica Photographer and leave a DSLR head, but I can tell you that leica deserve a lot the time spend learning ... as I told before I move from Nikon to Leica M262 and the experience is so good than I decide to move to the M10...about lens: well this depend on the type of photography you do...

 

 

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[Ko.Fe.]

Wait for colleague's M10. You'll know right away if RF is your thing or not. Most of the people to whom I gave Leica were unable to frame, focus with it. So different it is for them. But if you have Leica experience before with family Leica cameras, most likely it shouldn't be a problem. Like me, I used family FED-2 for many years as the only camera. Can't get along with DSLRs ever since

 

RF lenses seems to have less distortions on UWA and 50mm range. 90mm, IMO, is the longest lens with Leica to use optical VF, RF. Sports are usually not the problem to focus, because it is predictable in most cases. Pre-focus at the spot where it is going to happen, get enough DoF and wait. With Leica frame-lines it is actually much more easy to handle. Because VF space after frame-lines gives you comfort which is not exist with DSLR where it is tunnel vision a.k.a. precise framing

 

If for any reasons you'll miss AF, you could always get less expensive DSLR. I ditched FF Canon DSLRs, because their consumer DSLRs are good enough if AF is needed. Nikons consumer DSLRs are even better. 

[stephan54]

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I have a D700 and decided to go manual focussing, so I bought three Carl Zeiss lenses. The MF experience is to my liking, but the weight of my camera bag became a real burden. The focus confirmation of the D700 is accurate, but one often looks at the focus light instead of the subject. Inconvenient, but less so than the weight. I decided to trade in the Nikon set for a M10 (waiting list), a Summilux 50 (50 is my most used focal length) and a Elmarit 28. A 90mm has to wait, or there will be no food on the table for a considerable time.

Looking forward to the Leica experience and portability. MF just needs some getting used to, but if possible I would try out the camera first.

[i-Leica]

 I move from Nikon to Leica M262 and the experience is so good than I decide to move to the M10...about lens: well this depend on the type of photography you do...

 

 

 

which lenses do you own for the M10?

[zmcm]

which lenses do you own for the M10?

I have summicron 28/2, summicron 35/2 and Zeiss 50/1.8

 

 

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

Here's what you'll lose. Whether it's important is up to you.

 

1. AF. With practice you'll be able to follow someone at walking pace with a 90mm (I can. wide open). But RF focusing is a skill. It needs practice and you will have a learning curve.

2. Matrix metering. It's all old school on the M10. So you'll be either in manual or using exposure compensation to "guess" backlight adjustments etc... Again. It's a skill. Once you learn it it becomes reasonably natural. It will drive you batty for a bit.

3. Flash. Far more basic and their sheer size makes them less comfortable on the M than a DSLR. Maybe the SF40. But no wireless TTL etc.

4. Speed. The M10 is the fastest yet but still glacial compared to a D4S. Slower everything. Startup, writing, EVF refresh and delay, buffer clear......

5. Battery life. 2000+ to about 450 shots per charge. Batteries are small though.

6. TTL composition. Unless you use the EVF you'll have to learn how a rangerfinder window doesn't show the image borders accurately.

7. Zooms. The WATE can be used as a zoom with the EVF other than that there are none. You can use an adaptor and the EVF if you're really keen to have a zoom.

8. longer lenses. 135mm is the limit with RF lenses. You can go longer with the optional EVF and lens adaptors.

 

More than that an M (any M) will change the way you shoot. It'll change the way you approach an image. Not many cameras will do that. You hold an M a certain way. Your thought process is different to an auto everything super computer with a lens. You'll feel more involved in the image making process with a camera like an M than you will with a DSLR. Seeing what's outside the frame can be a revelation for moving people etc. Zone focusing becomes another tool available for use again.

 

Some people don't get on with that change. To them only the final image counts. If you don't care how you get the photo and it's just the size you're changing then you're probably better off with an A7R2 or an XT2 which will also give you IQ as good or better than your D4S.

 

But if you're into *making* photographs. If the process of making an image is as important as the end result then the M can be highly satisfying and to some addictive. If you*get it* the M doesn't become the camera you always take when you want to make photographs. It becomes the camera you take everywhere, every day.

 

Gordon

[zmcm]

I have summicron 28/2 ASPH, summicron 35/2 ASPH and Zeiss 50/1.8

 

 

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[Guest]

I have 28/50/90/135 just waiting the M10.......

[albertknappmd]

Welcome, Jurgen!

 

As previously mentionned, you may want to consider buying or renting an old M8 or M9 just to get the feel or wait for your friend's M10...

 

On the other hand, since you already own a DSLR, have you considered the Leica SL and its set of lenses as another alternative? The SL is a fantastic mirror-less camera which is much lighter than your D4 and boasts three lenses that are far superior to the Nikon line.. along with adaptors for other lenses.

 

Think about this option..

 

Albert      

[Magic]

Thank you very much for all your thoughts and replies...keep them coming :-)

 

Greetings, Jurgen

[Sam M]

I hope folk don't mind a mild thread hijack but it is related to the shift to a Rangefinder from DSLR...

 

Just how 'good' is zone focussing? My priority is photos of my children (4, 6 and 8) and they are fast moving most of the time. A little like sports photography I fear though not from such a distance.

 

Zone focussing will probably give me my best shot, but I am assuming I won't be counting eyelashes in the resultant photos?

 

I am so so in love with the idea of the M10 but every review and YouTube video gushing about it is based around Street Photography which can be interesting and fun but is just one genre.

 

Perhaps I just need to get over my love for full-frame

[Jeff S]

I hope folk don't mind a mild thread hijack but it is related to the shift to a Rangefinder from DSLR...

he like sports photography I fear though not from such a distance.

 

Zone focussing will probably give me my best shot, but I am assuming I won't be counting eyelashes in the resultant photos?

 

I am so so in love with the idea of the M10 but every review and YouTube video gushing about it is based around Street Photography which can be interesting and fun but is just one genre.

 

Perhaps I just need to get over my love for full-frame

 

I'll suggest the same advice I gave to the OP.....get your hands on a used M8 (not full frame) or M9 (full frame) and try it out.  Focusing on moving objects takes time, even for those who bond with the RF approach.  There are many useful tips on using the M, including focus techniques, in the FAQ....  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/216580-leica-m8-m82-m9-m9p-mm-mtyp240-faqs-questions-with-answers/

 

Jeff

[Sam M]

Cheers - probably right. Except that all the reviews (and threads here) keep gushing about how the M10 is the rangefinder that Leica have been working towards all along! Everything else was just a flawed step along the way. That is probably the way with every new iteration and will probably be the case with the next version!

[tom0511]

Cheers - probably right. Except that all the reviews (and threads here) keep gushing about how the M10 is the rangefinder that Leica have been working towards all along! Everything else was just a flawed step along the way. That is probably the way with every new iteration and will probably be the case with the next version!

 

I agree, I have usedm them all andd they all did the job at the time I have owned them.

Each became a little better than the previous, and I enjoy the M10, but M8 and M9 and M240 did a nice job as well.

If I didnt have the M10 would rather get a FF version though than an M8, at current price a M240 since I think it is the best price/value, gives you more freedom for higher ISO, and handles faster /better processor, and better dynamic range.

Edited February 15, 2017 by tom0511

[Jeff S]

Cheers - probably right. Except that all the reviews (and threads here) keep gushing about how the M10 is the rangefinder that Leica have been working towards all along! Everything else was just a flawed step along the way. That is probably the way with every new iteration and will probably be the case with the next version!

My point is that someone who hasn't experienced M/RF photography doesn't need to spend near $7k to find out. The digital Ms incorporate the same basic RF principles, and rely on comparable user techniques.

 

Jeff

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[Sam M]

My point is that someone who hasn't experienced M/RF photography doesn't need to spend near $7k to find out. The digital Ms incorporate the same basic RF principles, and rely on comparable user techniques.

Jeff

Yup - Agree. Am looking for an M9 to play with. A mighty fine camera in its own right and will actually compliment my Q well I think. Now, where to find one Downunder!