vikasmg Posted February 14, 2017 Share #1 Posted February 14, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Last week in Washington DC it was very cold (around 2 deg C) and twice I noticed an odd problem. I was primarily using a 35mm lens with the rangefinder though I had the EVF mounted. A couple of times I tried to switch to the digital viewfinder using Live View but it needed two or three pushes on th LV button to activate. Both in the EVF and the rear screen. The same problem with the Menu button. Nothing would show on the rear screen till I pressed the button two or three times. The problem would go away soon after I went indoors. I wondered if anyone else has experienced this problem. - Vikas Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Hi vikasmg, Take a look here Cold M10 whether issues?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
digitalfx Posted February 14, 2017 Share #2 Posted February 14, 2017 Look at post #3 in the FAQ: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269015-m10-faq-thread/?p=3204692 just tap the button, don't push and hold it 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 14, 2017 Share #3 Posted February 14, 2017 Im sure the operating temperature range will be in the manual. Usually it is something between 0 and 40 Centigrade. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikasmg Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #4 Posted February 14, 2017 Thanks - yes I thought of that and tried it. I will try it again in the future. At present I'm in Singapore and no chance of those low temperatures here! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikasmg Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #5 Posted February 14, 2017 Im sure the operating temperature range will be in the manual. Usually it is something between 0 and 40 Centigrade. Yes, it does say 0 to 40 C. SO I may have been just at the borderline or below. Incidentally, while looking for that specification I spotted a curious line relating to the sensor: >> SENSOR • Cosmic radiation (e.g. during flights) can cause pixel defects. << Cosmic radiation through the aircraft body and baggage etc, through the camera body and all the way to the sensor! Sounds like science fiction! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitrox1 Posted February 14, 2017 Share #6 Posted February 14, 2017 Incidentally, while looking for that specification I spotted a curious line relating to the sensor: >> SENSOR • Cosmic radiation (e.g. during flights) can cause pixel defects. << Cosmic radiation through the aircraft body and baggage etc, through the camera body and all the way to the sensor! Sounds like science fiction! We need tin foil hats for our digi Leicas! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef63 Posted February 14, 2017 Share #7 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Incidentally, while looking for that specification I spotted a curious line relating to the sensor: >> SENSOR • Cosmic radiation (e.g. during flights) can cause pixel defects. << Cosmic radiation through the aircraft body and baggage etc, through the camera body and all the way to the sensor! Sounds like science fiction! It's not science fiction. CCD, CMOS but also your flash cards are prone to damage when flying at high altitude (above 20000 ft). All kind of particles from outer space are constantly bombing the earth. They contain a lot of energy and they can penetrate into your camera and punch a hole through the insulation of a memory cell on a flash card or a pixel on a digital sensor. This creates a leak and in extreme case can cause a hot pixel. Depending on the error correction of a flash card or the noise reduction algorithm of a sensor however things get most of the time unnoticed or have little effect. Due to the magnetic field of the earth that is concentrated towards the poles more cosmic particles are present there than above the equator. So a camera is more at risk on a polar route. You can avoid cosmic rays by putting your camera inside a box made of concrete. You will need at least 1,5 m walls Edited February 14, 2017 by Stef63 5 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikasmg Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted February 14, 2017 That much concrete will be too much to check in even if I travel first class :-) Interesting to know. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted February 14, 2017 Share #9 Posted February 14, 2017 2 deg C is not cold. Even if the spec says 0-40, you should be able to use your M without problems in far colder temperatures. I have used my M240 in -20 deg C. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikasmg Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #10 Posted February 14, 2017 We need tin foil hats for our digi Leicas! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk More like a concrete bomb proof chamber according to the next responder! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted February 14, 2017 Share #11 Posted February 14, 2017 It's not science fiction. CCD, CMOS but also your flash cards are prone to damage when flying at high altitude (above 20000 ft). All kind of particles from outer space are constantly bombing the earth. They contain a lot of energy and they can penetrate into your camera and punch a hole through the insulation of a memory cell on a flash card or a pixel on a digital sensor. This creates a leak and in extreme case can cause a hot pixel. Depending on the error correction of a flash card or the noise reduction algorithm of a sensor however things get most of the time unnoticed or have little effect. Due to the magnetic field of the earth that is concentrated towards the poles more cosmic particles are present there than above the equator. So a camera is more at risk on a polar route. You can avoid cosmic rays by putting your camera inside a box made of concrete. You will need at least 1,5 m walls Should be OK, as long as you can bring it on as hand luggage... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted February 14, 2017 Share #12 Posted February 14, 2017 Last week in Washington DC it was very cold (around 2 deg C) and twice I noticed an odd problem. I was primarily using a 35mm lens with the rangefinder though I had the EVF mounted. A couple of times I tried to switch to the digital viewfinder using Live View but it needed two or three pushes on th LV button to activate. Both in the EVF and the rear screen. The same problem with the Menu button. Nothing would show on the rear screen till I pressed the button two or three times. The problem would go away soon after I went indoors. I wondered if anyone else has experienced this problem. - Vikas Sounds like user error to me, even if you go indoors camera want warm up instantly but we tend to remove excess clothing; when you tried to push the button outdoors did you have gloves on? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikasmg Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #13 Posted February 14, 2017 Sounds like user error to me, even if you go indoors camera want warm up instantly but we tend to remove excess clothing; when you tried to push the button outdoors did you have gloves on? I tried it both with and without gloves! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted February 14, 2017 Share #14 Posted February 14, 2017 try just tapping the buttons and notice how it reacts. then push the button and see how it reacts then push the button and hold for a half second and see how it reacts once you get the hang of the way it works, it will become second nature. Its designed to only allow taps to activate the buttons so they aren't inadvertently pushed when grabbing the camera or putting it in your bag. my guess is that in the cold, you were pushing the buttons too long. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2017 Share #15 Posted February 14, 2017 2 deg C is not cold. Even if the spec says 0-40, you should be able to use your M without problems in far colder temperatures. I have used my M240 in -20 deg C. But this should not be luck but a self-evident feature. When are the specifications for digital Leica cameras finally expanded to significantly lower temperatures? Nobody living in colder zones would buy a car whose electronics fail below zero degrees Celsius. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 15, 2017 Share #16 Posted February 15, 2017 As to operating temperature - 0°C is just Leica covering their butt (not a criticism). I've used my M9s - with the same official limitation - at least down to 0°F/-17°C. Leica just doesn't want complaints IF something should fail below 0°C. It IS possible that LCD screens (on the back of the M10, or in the Viso EVF) can get slow to respond in extreme cold (they are, after all, Liquid-Crystal Displays - and the "liquid" can get a bit like the proverbial "molasses in January" if too cold). And/or turn all black - usually temporarily - if they get really hot. Since the M10 has live-view, that may be more of a noticeable issue than with the M9 (who cares if the menus are a bit sluggish?). As to cosmic rays - you have to remember that at that scale, everything we think of as solid (airplane metal, camera metal, our bodies) is well over 99% empty space. It is only the interatomic bonds that make things "feel" solid, and will trap or reflect massless photons of light, making things appear opaque and "light-tight". A relatively massy cosmic ray (a free neutron or proton, not a photon, with 10s of Joules of kinetic energy) will blast right through those force-fields and that empty space like a bullet through tissue paper - no, make that, little bits of tissue paper spaced 50 cms/20 inches apart. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikasmg Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share #17 Posted February 15, 2017 ... Its designed to only allow taps to activate the buttons so they aren't inadvertently pushed when grabbing the camera or putting it in your bag. my guess is that in the cold, you were pushing the buttons too long. That's possible, thanks. I will be in cold whether again on Tuesday so I'll give it a try! - Vikas Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikasmg Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share #18 Posted February 15, 2017 As to operating temperature - 0°C is just Leica covering their butt (not a criticism). I've used my M9s - with the same official limitation - at least down to 0°F/-17°C. Leica just doesn't want complaints IF something should fail below 0°C. It IS possible that LCD screens (on the back of the M10, or in the Viso EVF) can get slow to respond in extreme cold (they are, after all, Liquid-Crystal Displays - and the "liquid" can get a bit like the proverbial "molasses in January" if too cold). And/or turn all black - usually temporarily - if they get really hot. Since the M10 has live-view, that may be more of a noticeable issue than with the M9 (who cares if the menus are a bit sluggish?). As to cosmic rays - you have to remember that at that scale, everything we think of as solid (airplane metal, camera metal, our bodies) is well over 99% empty space. It is only the interatomic bonds that make things "feel" solid, and will trap or reflect massless photons of light, making things appear opaque and "light-tight". A relatively massy cosmic ray (a free neutron or proton, not a photon, with 10s of Joules of kinetic energy) will blast right through those force-fields and that empty space like a bullet through tissue paper - no, make that, little bits of tissue paper spaced 50 cms/20 inches apart. When I posted the original query I had no idea the answers would be so fascinating :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surelythisnameisfree Posted February 15, 2017 Share #19 Posted February 15, 2017 interatomic bonds[/u] that make things "feel" solid, and will trap or reflect massless photons of light, making things appear opaque and "light-tight". A relatively massy cosmic ray (a free neutron or proton, not a photon, with 10s of Joules of kinetic energy) will blast right through those force-fields and that empty space like a bullet through tissue paper - no, make that, little bits of tissue paper spaced 50 cms/20 inches apart. This is why forums are great 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted February 15, 2017 Share #20 Posted February 15, 2017 This is yesterday in northern Spain mountains. Temperature well under 0 C, snowstorm and both the M10 and MM1 performed perfectly. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269361-cold-m10-whether-issues/?do=findComment&comment=3213396'>More sharing options...
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