Is it SAFE to collapse lenses on the M10

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

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I got asked a few times if it's ok to collapse lenses on the M10

 

I've collapsed them on the M9 and the M240 with zero issues and that continues with the M10 as well - it's perfectly safe, go ahead and enjoy them on the lovely M10

 

Elmar-M 50/2.8 collapsed on the M10 as an example here:

 

 

 

[willeica]

This is a modern lens. Most collapsible lenses are quite old. Older lenses vary in their construction and the degree to which the central tube collapses.  I would advise against doing this as a general practice. Good luck to anyone who does this. It is not worth the risk.

 

William

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[TheGodParticle/Hari]

This is a modern lens. Most collapsible lenses are quite old. Older lenses vary in their construction and the degree to which the central tube collapses. I would advise against doing this as a general practice. Good luck to anyone who does this. It is not worth the risk.

 

William

Here we go again [emoji23]

 

I will upload a 90/4 (1955) collapsed on the M10 shortly

 

Any collapsible lens in particular that you consider risky?

 

There are after all only a few collapsible lenses:

 

Elmar 50/2.8

Elmar-M 50/2.8

Elmar 50/3.5

Elmar 90/4

 

Voigtlander 50mm

 

Have I missed any others?

[TomB_tx]

Hector 50 2.5

Summar 50 2.0

Summitar 50 2.0

Summicron 50 2.0 ver.1

 

These are LTM models, but I use the last 3 on M bodies, including M9. I haven't collapsed them on my M9 as yet.

 

Oh, there are also Canon, Nikon, Simlar (and other Japanese LTM) and Russian collapsible versions.

Edited February 4, 2017 by TomB_tx

[UliWer]

Here we go again [emoji23]

I will upload a 90/4 (1955) collapsed on the M10 shortly

Any collapsible lens in particular that you consider risky?

 

The old collapsible 4/90 Elmar is the lens which certainly must not collapsed in a digital body! The manual does say this and nobody recommends to do it. The lenses rear part is much too broad for the body.

 

Of course this does not apply to the modern Makro-Elmar M.

[willeica]

Here we go again [emoji23]

 

I will upload a 90/4 (1955) collapsed on the M10 shortly

 

Any collapsible lens in particular that you consider risky?

 

There are after all only a few collapsible lenses:

 

Elmar 50/2.8

Elmar-M 50/2.8

Elmar 50/3.5

Elmar 90/4

 

Voigtlander 50mm

 

Have I missed any others?

 

My advice still stands. I would not collapse a lens on any digital M. There are several quotes from Dirty Harry that apply, but 'Do you feel lucky?' is probably the best one. I use collapsible lenses on digital Ms a lot of the time and I have posted a number of articles showing examples of the effects with old lenses on modern digital Ms, but in every case I kept the lens extended. It is not a major inconvenience as fully extended those lenses are still smaller than their modern equivalents. 

 

William

[LocalHero1953]

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See page 135 of the manual.

Take the advice by the OP if you want to invalidate your warranty.

Everyone else would be best advised to follow the manual.

I'm guessing that Leica has allowed a bit of a safety margin, so it is possible that some lenses are fine. But I agree with Dirty Harry.

[david strachan]

Why collapse your lenses anyway?? Just leave them extended.

 

I have a first edition Summicron, and can't remember the last time I collapsed it.

 

cheers..

[UliWer]

It's funny that photographers seem to avoid looking at things

 

If one looks into the "throat" of a digital M and in one of an analog model, it is very easy to notice that digital bodies have a much narrower opening between the bayonet and the shutter. I don't know the M (Typ 240) and the M10 - though I am sure they don't have a wider "throat" since there is even more packed into the body than for the M8/M9.

 

Now you may have a look at the rear end of some collapsible lenses. It's not essential whether they are "modern" ore old, and even the length of the tube's projection is not the biggest concern (in most cases).

 

It's width! 

 

The old collapsible 4/90 Elmar is not dangerous because of it's tube's length - it's tube's projection is one of the shortest of all collapsible lenses by Leitz or Leica. But it has three ridges at the tube's end to fix it when it is extracted. With these three ridges it is the collapsible lense with the largest diameter at the rear end of it's tube: 31.8mm.

 

When you look at the rear end of the 2.8/50mm Elmar-M (last and "modern" version), you see something like a "black ring" which has a bigger diameter than the tube with ridges (30.46mm). Some members of the German forum asked the Leica Custumer Care, if they were safe to collapse the Elmar-M. What did the Customer Care do? They cut off the "black ring" - which gives the tube's end a diameter of ca. 30mm.

 

Now you may look again into the camera's throat. Where is the narrowest part of the throat? It's the little wheel, which activates the rangefinder. This little wheel has not changed it's position since the very beginning. That is the reason why one still can focus lenses more than eighty years old with a body made in 2017.

 

When I collapse a 50mm Elmar-M (last version) with the black ring still on it, I feel that it touches something even with an old body for film: it's the little wheel. When I try to collapse a 2/50mm Summitar in a Leica II - the first model which had the little wheel - it touches it. Obviously there was some "collision" all the times since Barnack introduced the little wheel for "automatic focussing" (so called in 1932) and Berek was responsible for the collapsibe lenses. Though they didn't care much about it. 

 

So it's up to the user's decision if he wants to risk the "collision" or not. Leica says in the manual to avoid it. 

 

Though the old collapsible 4/90mm Elmar will not only have some problems with the little wheel but will damage other parts of the "throat" of a digital Leica M - if it enters at all (I did not try it and will not try). 

[greene881]

I have a 50mm f3.5 Elmar on my M246.

I followed a tip from one of the forums and put a rubber O ring on the lens to prevent it closing fully.

[david strachan]

Perhaps someone would let me know why they want to collapse their lenses??

 

In Barnack's day it was done to fit the camera into an "every ready case", to make the camera more compact.

 

As said I just leave extended...no barrel scratching that way...and another less move to have your camera ready.

 

I'd be interested to know.

 

cheers...

[pop]

I used to collapse my lenses in order to fit the camera into my briefcase.

[david strachan]

Aha! Thanks Philip.  That's good idea.

(But please don't start a bag thread, using briefcases..  )

[pop]

Don't worry, the briefcase time is in my past. No more office, no more briefcase for me.

[Hey You]

A coat is essential in Montreal for 6 months of the year.  

My camera goes inside my coat.  The less it protrudes, the better.

[uhoh7]

I'm not claiming it's safe.

Leitz v Zeiss by unoh7, on Flickr

 

But I've done it many times. I always mount the red scale elmar extended, then collapse. I did alot of reading before I tried it the first time. Leica advises not to do it. 5cm Elmars go the deepest, I think. I don't know about width.

 

I don't do with this body, but with an o-ring some do. I read a post once where a guy tried it without O-ring and had very bad results on A7

Elmar by unoh7, on Flickr

 

M9 is nice to carry like this

DSC08945 by unoh7, on Flickr

 

But don't try it on my word. Look into it yourself. Also M10 is totally different camera.

Edited February 6, 2017 by uhoh7

[friedeye]

I collapse, and it works. Elmar 35, 3.5, Elmar 50, 3.5, Summar 50, Summitar 50 - I think that's it on my screw mounts. I do it so my camera fits into my pocket. I think that's kinda what Oskar wanted. Just be careful. When you mount the lens, have it extended and locked - then collapse it. I think Leica is worried about careless mounting.

 

And the old lenses are gorgeous on the new digital bodies. Character in spades. Enjoy.

[jdlaing]

Years ago I had a conversation with a technician.

That person told me, at the time on an M9, that a collapsible lens should be extended when mounting to avoid damaging the throat of the camera. Once mounted it could be safely collapsed.

[Nordvik]

No problem with 5cm Elmar on M8/M9 (or 5cm Summicron).

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[stephen.w]

Years ago I had a conversation with a technician.

That person told me, at the time on an M9, that a collapsible lens should be extended when mounting to avoid damaging the throat of the camera. Once mounted it could be safely collapsed.

 

This has been my understanding too. I routinely collapsed a 50mm Elmar-M (once mounted) on a M9 with no issues.

 

My M9 is away for sensor replacement, so I can't compare the two side-by-side, but can anyone point to a difference with the M10 which would make it unsafe to collapse this particular lens?