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M 11 will be around in less than 4 years. The speculations and facts.


Paulus

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I want "film lever" ,  "4k 240p video" and fully support "DJI Ronin-S"

 

if battery is dead, M11 still can taking one shop when push film lever 5 times or 10 times.

 

slogan for M11 : "Keep shooting, Stay Leica, Forget battery"

Edited by ohwahahaha
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Call me “Mr. Manual”. Love the M10 in full manual mode. Use a Cambo Actus. Shift my cars with a clutch. Write with left oblique nib fountain pens (filled from bottles). Wear mechanical watches. Roast my own coffee beans. Etc.

 

I have enough modern tech “helping me” at work. I find pleasure in slowing down and doing things purposefully in my pastimes.

 

Doesn’t mean others can’t desire something different and I fully respect that. But I, for one, am pleased to see Leica making cameras I enjoy using.

 

My neighbor reminded me of a dividing line between best-tech and visceral joy: His wife hates Porsche manual shift. He loves it because it keeps her from driving it.

 

There is a correlation between Leica M users and the whiners for more automation.

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Leica is innovative in their own way, but does realize that the options are limited within the parameters of the M concept. And justly so, it is what makes this camera attractive. 

So:

The M evolves whilst sticking as closely as possible to the original concept.

The SL is the platform for advanced use.

The CL is a modern interpretation of the original Leica/Barnack idea: The highest possible quality in a small, portable package, sacrificing film (in this case sensor) size. 

 

Which means that the basic answer from Leica to all the  backseat innovators, including myself, of the M system is: "We provide other cameras for your wants. You can even use M lenses without restrictions on those models."

 

 

Exactly!!!

 

That's what I was trying to say on Page 16 and Page 17 of this thread. We've finally reached a consensus here. : ) 

Edited by Kevinfinity
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Ever looked at the size of a dynamo that could accomplish this?

What about nuclear power! The “fuel” will last for a long time. Similar to the one used in Voyager, only smaller and safer for our future children when placed on the lap.

That is my ultimate M. :D

Edited by jmahto
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Whilst searching around for something completely unrelated - an M10 half-case, of all things - I came across this on the Leicarumors website :

 

Interesting trivia: in May 2012 Leica Camera AG trademarked "M11" as an "instruments and apparatus, in particular photographic rangefinder cameras for analogue or digital still image recording, digital cameras". The "M10" name was trademarked back in 2010.

 
Could this mean the M11 will be around two years after the release of the M10?
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Whilst searching around for something completely unrelated - an M10 half-case, of all things - I came across this on the Leicarumors website :

 

Interesting trivia: in May 2012 Leica Camera AG trademarked "M11" as an "instruments and apparatus, in particular photographic rangefinder cameras for analogue or digital still image recording, digital cameras". The "M10" name was trademarked back in 2010.

 
Could this mean the M11 will be around two years after the release of the M10?

 

 

Not a chance!

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No reason to worry: you may trademark the names M 12 to M20 now, but it will not help you against others using the names if you cannot prove that you used the name during the last 5 years.

 

Take 3 years as a minimum time for selling - i.e. making use of your trademark - for a M. The M10 came in early 2017, so we cannot expect an M11 before 2020, an M12 not before 2023. So if they registered the name M12 now it would not protect them for the expected time of selling the model.

Edited by UliWer
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I think this camera is as near to perfect as is possible— like asking Fender to improve the Stratocaster. I can only think of one thing: the sensor.

 

Make the M-11 a CCD sensor camera to make the digital images even richer and like the much loved M-9. This would cement the camera as a still photography tool and guarantees no video capability.

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For me the M10 is a perfekt camera too!

 

Leaving DSLRs 5/6 years ago I came from Sony FF to the M10 last year.

It was boring to see new technologies every year, which did not improve anything ...

 

With my M10 some kind of "GASless" tranquilité came back to me :)

I think she will accompany me for several years ...

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This is probably daft, but I haven't had enough coffee yet. I thought the Leica MD an intriguing camera, didn't buy it, my story of how I ended up with an MA instead and didn't buy the MD is here https://www.35mmc.com/03/12/2016/leica-to-m-d-or-not-to-m-d/ . All that said it made me think about digital cameras without a screen, and ponder the fact that most of us carry screens with us all the time in the guise of our smart phone, so if we have camera with us why do we need two screens . Why not have the M11 screenless and talk to my smart phone every time I need to review. OK there will be connection issues, but wireless tech should solve that , maybe handling issue of holding two devices at once, something for the designers to think about. But the upside would be no screen, less power consumed, and enable a slimmer more ergonomic design. Any way just musing.

Edited by AdamSinger
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This is probably daft, but I haven't had enough coffee yet. I thought the Leica MD an intriguing camera, didn't buy it, my story of how I ended up with an MA instead and didn't buy the MD is here https://www.35mmc.com/03/12/2016/leica-to-m-d-or-not-to-m-d/ . All that said it made me think about digital cameras without a screen, and ponder the fact that most of us carry screens with us all the time in the guise of our smart phone, so if we have camera with us why do we need two screens . Why not have the M11 screenless and talk to my smart phone every time I need to review. OK there will be connection issues, but wireless tech should solve that , maybe handling issue of holding two devices at once, something for the designers to think about. But the upside would be no screen, less power consumed, and enable a slimmer more ergonomic design. Any way just musing......

......because you don't have three hands!

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A fair response, and I was looking forward to the Armilux , for that extra appendage. How ever to be serious convergence over time seems to solve these issues. I don't need to review every shot immediately, it can wait, I can let the camera dangle on its strap as I look, maybe some form of bracket,may be in partnership with Huawei and develop an ultra thin phone. Innovation comes from questions, and I am merely posing a question stemming from years of convergence which indicates that Occam's razor rules when it comes to duplicating technology.

After all Occam's razor in the guise that most carry a smart phone has severely wounded the bottom end of the camera market.

Edited by AdamSinger
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My requests are as follows:  Make the M11 the size of an 8x10 view camera so that sensor cleaning, two memory card slots, articulated LCD screen, a motorcycle size battery and HD video can be included.

 

Maybe then nutty people will stop referring to the M240 and SL as "huge." :rolleyes:

Edited by Herr Barnack
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It seems clear that the M camera will be offered by Leica for the foreseeable future. So, there will be an M11.

 

When moving from the M(240) to the M10, Leica consciously, intentionally and advisedly refined the camera. It ditched what it felt did not belong in an M camera. Intentionally. I don’t expect them to reverse those decisions. What was omitted is available in the L mount cameras. What we will see is refinement in the M10 - the best M digital so far.

 

What refinements? For me:

 

(1) much as I’d like a movable focus patch and a solution to what is 60 year old tech, I don’t see it happening. That leaves the M in its ideal spot of 28mm to 90mm, unless you add a clipon EVF (I think we will see an improvement there).

 

(2) ditch the baseplate and instal the click battery from the L cameras, with a side door for 2 SD cards and in camera USB charging.

 

(3) stay with 24MP, but improve the processor and improve the dynamic range (see Sony A7S).

 

(4) joystick from the SL.

 

Leica may come up with other improvements (no red dot), but honestly much of what is talked about here is of zero interest to me - my SL and TL2 do most of that better than an M would.

 

In the meantime, where is the Monochrom version of the M10 (I know they’re expensive to produce) and, more critically, the M-D version? An M10-MD with WiFi and external EVF would be a killer camera. I’m waiting for Photokina in hope ...

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think this camera is as near to perfect as is possible— like asking Fender to improve the Stratocaster. I can only think of one thing: the sensor.

 

Make the M-11 a CCD sensor camera to make the digital images even richer and like the much loved M-9. This would cement the camera as a still photography tool and guarantees no video capability.

 

Yes, forget the video. There are so many tools for that.

Nobody uses it and leaving it out was only noticed because the M10 all at once wakes up fast. 

 

Of course there are some making some nice still movies  :huh: B@W even. But this is a perfect task for the existing M240's.

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It seems clear that the M camera will be offered by Leica for the foreseeable future. So, there will be an M11.

 

When moving from the M(240) to the M10, Leica consciously, intentionally and advisedly refined the camera. It ditched what it felt did not belong in an M camera. Intentionally. I don’t expect them to reverse those decisions. What was omitted is available in the L mount cameras. What we will see is refinement in the M10 - the best M digital so far.

 

What refinements? For me:

 

(1) much as I’d like a movable focus patch and a solution to what is 60 year old tech, I don’t see it happening. That leaves the M in its ideal spot of 28mm to 90mm, unless you add a clipon EVF (I think we will see an improvement there).

 

(2) ditch the baseplate and instal the click battery from the L cameras, with a side door for 2 SD cards and in camera USB charging.

 

(3) stay with 24MP, but improve the processor and improve the dynamic range (see Sony A7S).

 

(4) joystick from the SL.

 

Leica may come up with other improvements (no red dot), but honestly much of what is talked about here is of zero interest to me - my SL and TL2 do most of that better than an M would.

 

In the meantime, where is the Monochrom version of the M10 (I know they’re expensive to produce) and, more critically, the M-D version? An M10-MD with WiFi and external EVF would be a killer camera. I’m waiting for Photokina in hope ...

 

 

Somebody needs to explain to me how with a rangefinder (Number 1) there could be a moveable patch, so therefore to me number 4 pretty much useless.  Would really like a better (read smaller) EVF for anything longer than 90mm.

I would really like number 2 - having to remove bottom plate for card and battery, I think we have all moved on haven't we???  Being able to separate DNG and Jpeg with two cards would be great.

Don't much care about 3 but feel maybe Leica needs to push on to near 30MP.  

I have never got my head around video and have always thought that should be left to a dedicated video cam anyway.

 

All the above from a very happy M10 user who honestly has no need for any improvements - would just be an excuse to spend money!

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