M 11 will be around in less than 4 years. The speculations and facts.

[Paul J]

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Perhaps, but Leica has clearly moved on and now we have the SL and the new M10. I think you may get a camera a fair bit like the one you desire, but it is more likely to be the next generation of the SL. There might even be a smaller mirrorless camera that is closer to what you desire as well. I just don't think or want the M11 to be anything like the camera you describe. I like the divergence in Leica's camera line up and I think they can make both of us happy and I hope they will.

 

That's not a camera I desire, either is a smaller mirrorless.

[pico]

A proper Leica should either be too young to attend kindergarten or old enough to have earned its MD-PhD. Shepherding them through the interim years is an act of love, not of volition.

 

How very mysterious, silly and meaningless.

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[Tobers]

I'd like to see a really clever, simple and innovative way to confirm focus. There must be a way to do this which is game changing.

 

We all like the rangefinder approach. I don't really want a built-in EVF. I've been looking at an EVF as a mechanism to magnify the focus area to confirm focus, rather than anything else. I don't want a clip-on appendage.

 

I want to use the OVF, and the rangefinder. But I want a way to confirm focus, especially for wide aperture shooting, which is more accurate than the rangefinder (90/2 user here).

 

There must be a way. Some sort of overlay in the viewfinder? Or some sort of real-time graphical interpretation e.g. a bar along the bottom of the viewfinder that interprets the focus inside the rangefinder patch, and which changes colour or intensity as focus is reached.

 

There's a real opportunity here for Leica to use the latest tech to assist and improve the fantastic experiance that is rangefinder photography, in a subtle, elegant and complimentary manner.

[Steve Spencer]

That's not a camera I desire, either is a smaller mirrorless.

 

What is it that you don't like about the SL? I see the next generation SL as likely to have good hard tethering capabilities, higher resolution, great video, and a much larger longer lasting battery--the four things you mentioned, whereas I don't think any of those things are likely on the M11, or in my view even desirable, except moderately higher resolution. That is all I meant when I said that I think the next generation SL will be a camera a fair bit like you desire. I should have been more precise. I think the four things you mentioned or something pretty close are likely to be in the next generation SL. 

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

 

How about an, effectively, current film MP body with a removable & upgradable & interchangeable digital sensor which comes complete with the necessary accompanying electronics.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited February 2, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht

[pico]

Tobers: Search this site and Google for Leica's focusing patents.

It is not like they are not already researching it.

 

While you are at it look at Linhof's electronic RF failure.

[hollisd]

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How about an, effectively, current film MP body with a removable & upgradable & interchangeable digital sensor which comes complete with the necessary accompanying electronics.

 

It would be a game changer but they'll never do it. Why make such a refined body that could be passed down generations when the camera has a limited lifespan. A sensor upgrade would would be a landslide but it ain't gonna happen.

 

I wish they would release an entry level M: a basic digital M body that makes concessions to meet an affordable price.

Edited February 2, 2017 by hollisd

[Paul J]

What is it that you don't like about the SL? I see the next generation SL as likely to have good hard tethering capabilities, higher resolution, great video, and a much larger longer lasting battery--the four things you mentioned, whereas I don't think any of those things are likely on the M11, or in my view even desirable, except moderately higher resolution. That is all I meant when I said that I think the next generation SL will be a camera a fair bit like you desire. I should have been more precise. I think the four things you mentioned or something pretty close are likely to be in the next generation SL. 

 

 

I just like the M, for a lot of reasons.

 

I like the rangefinder, I like Manual focus, I like the physical shutter, aperture and iso dials, I like that it is tiny and that it's lenses are compact but remarkable, I don't want to focus with a stopped down lens, I don't want to use an EVF in a dark studio. SL lenses are enormous. The M is a joy to use, I find the SL completely uninspiring. I think the M Lenses on the SL look stupid.

[pico]

I wish they would release an entry level M: a basic digital M body that makes concessions to meet an affordable price.

 

Indeed, the digital Leica that would appeal to the majority and undermine all their current camera sales.

.

[Tailwagger]

I'd like to see a really clever, simple and innovative way to confirm focus. There must be a way to do this which is game changing.

 

My guess that it would change the game in ways that would wind up being unacceptable.  Manual focus confirmation is really a byproduct of AF systems, which suggests to me that you have to a camera that is more of an SLR with a prism or a true mirrorless design underneath. Likely something could be pulled off in LV, with a cd system, but I suspect it would be pretty awkward.  

[4X5B&W]

I think what Leica has done with the M10 is the way most traditional Leica owners of film M's have really appreciated, and digital only shooters are now finding an appreciation for, such as simplification of design rather than a feature driven design.

 

All this talk of ever higher and higher ISO capabilities seems to be strange for people who tend to shoot at base ISO speed to get the ultimate quality from the sensor and lenses.

 

Again this constant talk about larger MP sensors is also a distraction, talk to people who have the 36MP+ cameras and they will tell you about how unsharp their images are when hand held.

Of course if you shoot hand held in daylight, you could always bump up the ISO speed to compensate for hand held vibration…..and have poorer sensor performance, Humm!!

Don't want a Leica M that can only perform well an a massive tripod.

 

So my thoughts on future potential refinements:

 

Improve the viewfinder even more, just because it's better than ever is no reason to not try to improve future viewfinders.

 

Reduce the size and weight to M4 proportions or slightly smaller, other manufacturers are producing smaller FF bodies that are great and encroaching into typical Leica M territory.

 

Improve sensor performance without drastically adding more MP's, just better image quality to take advantage of Leica's  fabulous lenses.

 

Hey, try to meet the competition price wise, not to beat them pricewise, just be more competitive and attract more customers as a result.

Edited February 3, 2017 by 4X5B&W

[Leicaiste]

Of course not ;-)

 

I just liked to mention, that the marketing experts of Leica state that the dimensions of the analogue bodys are back. That's only half the truth.

You are right, the M10 is more M6TTL/M7 size.

 

The only way to really slim the M11 would be to replace the OVF with an EVF.

 

Then Leica could move the lens mount forward without trouble.

 

But to install an EVF the quality of the SL's in such a slim body would be quite a challenge.

[sumolux]

I'd like to see a really clever, simple and innovative way to confirm focus. There must be a way to do this which is game changing.

 

 

 

Indeed, I cannot understand how film Leica shooters were ever able to focus an M without electronics!

That's why all pictures taken before the digital M are never sharp.

 

Automation of every detail is the only way to enrich the art of photgraphy 

[sumolux]

Hello Everybody,

 

How about an, effectively, current film MP body with a removable & upgradable & interchangeable digital sensor which comes complete with the necessary accompanying electronics.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

Dear God - THAT would be the ultimate Leica wetdream...(for me any anyway!)

[Distagon]

It is evident that video takes up a lot of space in the camera body. M240 w/ video = fat body, M10 w/o video = slim body     

Given that they can fit LiveView into the M10, the more important limitation is probably heat generation and dissipation.

Just my guess...

[Lax Jought]

As a full frame sensor, I'd always want it to stay at the Goldilocks 24MP.  Doing so would ensure that there will be exponential improvement in IQ and ISO performance, rather than ISO and IQ continually playing catch-up with ever increasing MP counts.

 

If I ever wanted higher MP count, and why not, I'd be looking at medium format.

[Paul J]

As a full frame sensor, I'd always want it to stay at the Goldilocks 24MP.  Doing so would ensure that there will be exponential improvement in IQ and ISO performance, rather than ISO and IQ continually playing catch-up with ever increasing MP counts.

 

If I ever wanted higher MP count, and why not, I'd be looking at medium format.

 

 Ever increasing MP count? It's hardly increased ever, it's only had slight increases. Given there is a 4+ stop upgrade in ISO and a hefty DR increase over the M9, I would say the time for resolution to get a much needed bump is overdue. And the M9 has plenty if DR, IMO.

 

Medium Format is not just for high pixel count. The Nikons, Sonys, Canons, Pentax (is there even anyone left?) do it perfectly well. A small high res 35mm camera is an invaluable tool. Leica's Medium Format is only 36MP anyway so it's well overdue on at least one platform.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Paul J

[Lax Jought]

Ever increasing MP count? It's hardly increased ever, it's only had slight increases.

That's what the person I'm quoting was requesting, not me.

[Steve Spencer]

Given that they can fit LiveView into the M10, the more important limitation is probably heat generation and dissipation.

Just my guess...

 

I think that it is likely true that heat generation and how to get rid of it is the issue, but that is why video requires a thicker body. You need space to let the heat dissipate.

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[Steve Spencer]

As a full frame sensor, I'd always want it to stay at the Goldilocks 24MP.  Doing so would ensure that there will be exponential improvement in IQ and ISO performance, rather than ISO and IQ continually playing catch-up with ever increasing MP counts.

 

If I ever wanted higher MP count, and why not, I'd be looking at medium format.

I agree very much on the sentiment, but I think 30-36 MP is more likely to be the Goldilocks FF 35mm in my opinion. As Sony and Canon went from 24 to 36 MP and 24 to 30 MP respectively, they not only got more resolution but they increased the IQ (with better dynamic range) and the high ISO ability (less noise at high ISO), and the colour depth if anything increased slightly. Across sensor sizes pixels that are about 5 microns seems to be a sweet spot and that is in that 30-36 MP range. It is also in this range that diffraction starts to naturally suppress moire so a bit higher MP sensor would have that advantage too.