ananda Posted January 27, 2017 Share #41 Posted January 27, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am going to buy the M10, but will wait till Spring or Summer. My 240 has done very well, though, and I remain a bit unsure whether the trade makes sense, although I am a lowlight photographer often and will appreciate the M10. Does anyone know how LONG exposures can be on the M10? The 240 is limited in that regard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Hi ananda, Take a look here First impressions - M10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jdlaing Posted January 27, 2017 Share #42 Posted January 27, 2017 125 seconds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share #43 Posted January 27, 2017 High ISO: I just keep finding myself not wanting to go too overboard about this camera incase I found out later that folks are reporting problems and I missed it. But, I am amazed at the high ISO. Last night I spent too much time comparing the M10 to my Sony RX1. The RX1 is a low light monster. It is a generation old but, it is all I have as a modern second camera to compare. The M10 easily is better by a stop. And, the color at higher ISO looks better. This means the M10 is roughly in the ballpark of the Sony A7rII. Unbelievable. Steve Huff showed quick shots in a very uncontrolled test that said the M10 performed better at high ISO and had more accurate and saturated color. http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2017/01/20/leica-m10-higher-iso-tests-vs-sony-a7rii-leica-sl-interesting/ My unscientific impression is - I'm very happy! I finally have a nighttime family shooter in one camera. I know, I know, dog (cat) pictures. But, hey, I like taking pictures of my dog, and he never asks for prints. https://www.flickr.com/photos/rickleica/albums/72157662064667729 These are not from the M10. Rick 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share #44 Posted January 27, 2017 Battery: I finally recharged my battery last night. It went down to 15%. It was not having problems at 15%. I have shot it on one charge every night playing around with it since Tuesday. That is three nights of chimping and EVF and all the stuff we do playing around with and getting to know a new camera. Battery time is not going to be a big deal. Unscientific impression: This is not a little battery. I believe that I could shoot a whole day on vacation, chomping, and some EVF easily with two batteries. Probably, a whole day with one battery if I was careful. I'm happy. Rick 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share #45 Posted January 27, 2017 I'd love to hear other folks' impressions... good or bad. Rick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted January 27, 2017 Share #46 Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) I love reading threads like this... I get excited with something new that exceeds my expectations and it's lovely to see someone else so enthused. Really happy for you Rick... Your thread more than any has made me consider just changing my M-P for an M10 right away... but I'm about to buy an SEM 21 from a member on here... and I want to wait for the M10-P version anyway... so a little less enthusiasm will help me keep on track!* Genuinely happy to see you so pleased though... enjoy! * I'm kidding! Go for it! Edited January 27, 2017 by Bill Livingston 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted January 27, 2017 Share #47 Posted January 27, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) My English is too bad for a decent review. I will do it some time in the German forum. But I can say from the two days I have the camera: It is the one I wanted. Elmar 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share #48 Posted January 27, 2017 My English is too bad for a decent review. I will do it some time in the German forum. But I can say from the two days I have the camera: It is the one I wanted. Elmar Your English is fine. Way better than my German (none). I'd like to hear your impression. Rick 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted January 27, 2017 Share #49 Posted January 27, 2017 Just got my M10 and here are my initial thoughts. 1) I'm blown away by the ISO capability. I think it's at least a full stop better than my Q... which puts it squarely in the A7Rii sensor category. 2) Somehow the thinner body makes it seem lighter than my M9-P. Not sure why. Maybe it's easier to grip. Love the matte black finish btw. 3) The favorites menu is awesome. I currently only have Drive Mode, White Balance, and WLAN in there. I might add something else, but that may be enough. 4) Operation is very snappy with absolutely no lag. 5) I haven't noticed the viewfinder being larger to be honest. The focus patch is brighter and more contrasty though. So I find it easier to nail focus. 6) I'm also not sure if the ISO dial is a good or bad thing. I'll have to use it more. 7) Love the shutter sound and quick reloads. I find no practical need to select Continous drive mode because I could shoot 3+ fps in Single mode. So far there have ben no downsides. This camera is a must-buy in my opinion. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted January 27, 2017 Share #50 Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) This means the M10 is roughly in the ballpark of the Sony A7rII. Unbelievable. Steve Huff showed quick shots in a very uncontrolled test that said the M10 performed better at high ISO and had more accurate and saturated color. Huff's tests are far from controlled, and they give a very general ballpark impression only. For one thing, comparing 100% 42mp vs 100% 24mp, the latter is going to win in noise unless it's way way behind. r2 files look very noisy even at base ISO 100%. That's because of the overall resolution. Here is A7r2 at ISO 200, under light cloud cover at 100% DSC08193-2 by unoh7, on Flickr OMG Noise!!!! This is a 42mp "thing", very misleading. This shot is actually unbelievably clean at 6k x 4k etc Huff does not even mention this. As you reduce size they get cleaner and cleaner. Huff used different lenses at different apertures with different exposures. He just never bothers to do any technical tests anymore, and he actually says he doesn't like controlled testing. Years ago he did make some very nice tests, so he certainly could. I like him, and enjoy his reviews and photography. But he has had some extreme opinions in the last few years, in many directions, so I try to take him in context. That said, I think the M10 is probably in the A7r2 ballpark at 6400ISO. It might even be better. But to know that, you'd want the same lens, and same file size. Edited January 27, 2017 by uhoh7 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share #51 Posted January 27, 2017 Thanks Mr Q. I agree with all of that. I haven't said anything about the finish in this thread. But, I have stated before the camera came out that I love my M4 which has black chrome. The ISO dial has taken me a while to wrap my mind around too. I am getting to the point that I like it. It plays well into the "essential" gestalt of this camera. I know, I know, I'm a marketing dupe. But, I like that I ISO can be accessed and viewed without the LCD. I like the A on the dial. My only two issues are that I'm not sure which ISO to assign to the "M" choice? I'm not sure if I want highest ISO possible and what is the highest ISO? 25000 is usable. Secondly, do I want to assign to the "M" dial the highest reasonable ISO I'd use and what is that? 3200? 6400??? Thanks for the impressions, much appreciated. Enjoy, Rick 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share #52 Posted January 27, 2017 uhoh7 - What is your first name? Someday, I know I'm going to run into you in SV or over in Stanley/ Challis areas. I'm the guy catching fish. I agree about Steve's quick post on the ISO and that is why I said uncontrolled. But, can you imagine that comparison with the M240 or M9? Just the fact that there is a Leica M camera that can be compared to the Sony sensors in their best cameras is amazing. I don't know if the Leica M10 is really better when all things are considered. But, again... I can finally take pictures of my dog, at night, when I have nothing better to take pictures of. That is really what it is all about, for me. Rick p.s. My dog's name is Hailey. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted January 27, 2017 Share #53 Posted January 27, 2017 Thanks Mr Q. I agree with all of that. I haven't said anything about the finish in this thread. But, I have stated before the camera came out that I love my M4 which has black chrome. The ISO dial has taken me a while to wrap my mind around too. I am getting to the point that I like it. It plays well into the "essential" gestalt of this camera. I know, I know, I'm a marketing dupe. But, I like that I ISO can be accessed and viewed without the LCD. I like the A on the dial. My only two issues are that I'm not sure which ISO to assign to the "M" choice? I'm not sure if I want highest ISO possible and what is the highest ISO? 25000 is usable. Secondly, do I want to assign to the "M" dial the highest reasonable ISO I'd use and what is that? 3200? 6400??? Thanks for the impressions, much appreciated. Enjoy, Rick Glad to hear that you agree with my impressions. As for my ISO settings, I have M set to ISO 16000. I rarely shoot in between full stop ISO's (ie ISO 250) so for now I'm planning to use it as an emergency setting when it's pitch dark. For the A setting I have the max ISO set at ISO 6400 and the max shutter speed set at 1/2f. That way the camera would stay above 1/90s for my 35 lux and 1/125s for my 50 lux. I find that good enough for most scenarios, reducing the risk of camera shake and motion blur. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted January 27, 2017 Share #54 Posted January 27, 2017 Battery: I finally recharged my battery last night. It went down to 15%. It was not having problems at 15%. I have shot it on one charge every night playing around with it since Tuesday. That is three nights of chimping and EVF and all the stuff we do playing around with and getting to know a new camera. Battery time is not going to be a big deal. Unscientific impression: This is not a little battery. I believe that I could shoot a whole day on vacation, chomping, and some EVF easily with two batteries. Probably, a whole day with one battery if I was careful. I'm happy. Rick I am reading better impression of M10's battery. Can you share some numbers? How many pictures did you shoot from full charge to 15%? Your usage looks like a typical usage. It doesn't have to be scientific. As for now, only two things are stopping me for M10, - Battery life - Trade in cost justification - M240 is damn good Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 27, 2017 Share #55 Posted January 27, 2017 Color. The Lr profile is the embedded one. There is no Adobe Standard profile yet and I assume we are going to get an update in the firmware from Leica as well. But, if you can do a minimal amount of PP you will be able to produce amazing color. The amount of PP is nothing like the amount of profiling the M240 needed. Rick Hi Rick . . I expect to find someone else saying this . . There is an Adobe standard profile in the latest version of Lightroom (6.8?)And it solves the yellow problem completely 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 27, 2017 Share #56 Posted January 27, 2017 My only two issues are that I'm not sure which ISO to assign to the "M" choice? I'm not sure if I want highest ISO possible and what is the highest ISO? 25000 is usable. Secondly, do I want to assign to the "M" dial the highest reasonable ISO I'd use and what is that? 3200? 6400??? Rick Set a different one for each or the user presets . . . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share #57 Posted January 27, 2017 Set a different one for each or the user presets . . . Jono, I know. I was trying to say that for the M setting, I am so impressed with the high ISO that I am not sure how high to set it. High ISO capability on this M10 is so far beyond what I'm used to, I can't yet figure out how to use this amazing ability. As far as the Auto ISO setting, I was trying to convey the same. How high do I want to set it? 3200? 6400? 12500? It is now more a matter of probably setting up some User Profiles. There are just too many options from this M10 that seems to at first glance to offer less. Users are going to have a lot of individual options. We got lots to argue about now. All good! Can't wait for more folks to get this camera so we can argue(discuss) about stuff... this time, good stuff. Rick 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted January 27, 2017 Share #58 Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) Ive set my auto ISO to 6400 and the M to 10,000. Personally I don't want to go higher than 10,000, but prefer 6400 as my ceiling. The beauty is, we now have the ability to set multiple ranges. So if you wanted an extreme ISO set a 2nd profile with those ceilings. Edited January 27, 2017 by digitalfx 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share #59 Posted January 27, 2017 Hi Rick . . I expect to find someone else saying this . . There is an Adobe standard profile in the latest version of Lightroom (6.8?) And it solves the yellow problem completely Jono, Thanks. I'm on 6.0. I'll update. I want to say again, this is not a review. I'd like to believe I'm a sort of mix between how I feel about a camera and I also have a technical background. Once I realize I like the camera because, I understand it and it is technically good enough... I stop fussing and get into the feel and enjoy. I'm already into the enjoy. I'll update my Lr to 6.8. Then I'll report about the yellow. Thanks Jono, Rick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share #60 Posted January 27, 2017 Ive set my auto ISO to 6400 and the M to 10,000. Personally I don't want to go higher than 10,000, but prefer 6400 as my ceiling. The beauty is, we now have the ability to set multiple ranges. So if you wanted an extreme ISO set a 2nd profile with those ceilings. Thanks for that. I'm at 6400/25000... because I can. I might cut the M down in half like you. Rick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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