M10 - the Image Thread

[Guest Nowhereman]

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this is such a great scene in a big way but IMHO the digital rendition kills it.  I'd make a friendly suggestion to try to think of a B&W film stock to replicate it here.  It will add some classic-ness and authenticity to the image.  The level of micro-contrast is amateurish and, quite frankly, heart-breaking.  I am only making this comment b/c the scene is soooo good and well-framed.  

 

nodrog, on 15 Feb 2018 - 21:59, said:

 

Waiting, Tokyo

 

This is a remarkable and misguided comment that needs a response. First, a bit of background: in the various LUF picture threads, including the film thread, one sees a range of photographic skills in terms of taking the shot itself and in post-processing. There are many excellent photographs and there are others that could be greatly improved, for example by increasing the contrast and extending the gradation, or the reverse. Sometimes there are muddy tonal palettes, as in this otherwise exceptionally good and expressive photograph that so well portrays the feeling of a Tokyo shopping street. But this particular image is easily fixable and especially easy if one used Silver Efex, or other similar tools. 

 

The suggestion of figuring out what film stock to use to render it "correctly" is misleading — it's not, as stated generically, that the "digital rendition kills it, but only an issue of post-processing: one would be hard-pressed to equal the resolution of this image with 35mm film, particularly hand-held: so that would mean going to medium format or even 4x5 film, which raises other issues.

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Edited February 26, 2018 by Nowhereman

[A miller]

Mitch - I honestly have no idea what you are saying.  I am simply stating my own personal opinion.  That by definition cannot be "misguided."  And then you go on a tangent regarding the Film thread.  Really lost on that one.  Then you seem to acknowledge a needed fix to the rendition, suggesting a workflow that I wouldn't disagree with.  If you read my post carefully it is not a jab at digital but rather the processing of the digital file.  And I will come back to the fact that it is my very own personal opinion.  I think you need to chill out.

Edited February 26, 2018 by A miller

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[FMB]

I would never get tired to look this image. It's an Encyclopedia of the Humanity and I couldn't care less how was done the edition. The matter shines by it self.

 

Congratulations, Nodrog.

 

Francisco.

[Paul J]

Mitch - I honestly have no idea what you are saying.  I am simply stating my own personal opinion.  That by definition cannot be "misguided."  And then you go on a tangent regarding the Film thread.  Really lost on that one.  Then you seem to acknowledge a needed fix to the rendition, suggesting a workflow that I wouldn't disagree with.  If you read my post carefully it is not a jab at digital but rather the processing of the digital file.  And I will come back to the fact that it is my very own personal opinion.  I think you need to chill out.

 

 

What do you expect? You called someones work amateurish and implied by doing the things YOU think would make it better (which were quite tacky to be frank) it would become a better picture. That is the most amateurish comment you could make.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Paul J

[A miller]

What do you expect? You called someones work amateurish and implied by doing the things YOU think would make it better (which were quite tacky to be frank) it would become a better picture. That is the most amateurish comment you could make.

Sorry, Paul, if my opinion regarding an overdose of micro-contrast rubbed you the wrong way. Friendly constructive comments are a good thing, however. I hardly ever do this sort of thing and it is only the strength of the photo in general that brought me to do it. Personal opinions such as the one i offered are sometimes the most valuable. It is perfectly fine to defend the nation of micro-contrast and Silver Efex, if that is what you believe is the better answer.

[Paul J]

Sorry, Paul, if my opinion regarding an overdose of micro-contrast rubbed you the wrong way. Friendly constructive comments are a good thing, however. I hardly ever do this sort of thing and it is only the strength of the photo in general that brought me to do it. Personal opinions such as the one i offered are sometimes the most valuable. It is perfectly fine to defend the nation of micro-contrast and Silver Efex, if that is what you believe is the better answer.

 

 

Calling someone's work amateurish isn't what I'd consider a friendly opinion.

 

Your opinion is only your own contextualising of another's work. If you just don't like it, that doesn't make it amateurish.

 

Your opinion on the technique also undermines the long established visual language of localised density and contrast manipulation that existed probably a hundred years before the word Micro Contrast came about. It has been used by some of the worlds most respected photographers and printers and is a deep part of photography's history.

 

Treating digital like film doesn't add "more authenticity". Adding "classic-ness" is the last thing some want to do.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Paul J

[A miller]

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I respect your opinion, Paul. I still think the rendition has an overdone processed and amateurish treatment. People can take that for what it is worth. Make no mistake, though, it is a great photo in its unprocessed state.

 

Calling someone's work amateurish isn't what I'd consider a friendly opinion.

 

Your opinion is only your own contextualising of another's work. If you just don't like it, that doesn't make it amateurish.

 

Your opinion on the technique also undermines the long established visual language of localised density and contrast manipulation that existed probably a hundred years before the word Micro Contrast even existed. It has been used by some of the worlds most respected photographers and printers.

 

Treating digital like film doesn't add "more authenticity". Adding "classic-ness" is the last thing some want to do.

[Paul J]

I respect your opinion, Paul. I still think the rendition has an overdone processed and amateurish treatment. People can take that for what it is worth. Make no mistake, though, it is a great photo in its unprocessed state.

 

 

 

Well with all respect that is a naive opinion that pays little attention and respect to the history of photography. I have seen far less subtle treatments from the least "amateur" of photographers.

[A miller]

Ok, Paul, so you have now made an opinion on my opinion. I will let you have the last iterative opinion on this so youz can get back to sharing your M10 photos.

[Paul J]

Ok, Paul, so you have now made an opinion on my opinion. I will let you have the last iterative opinion on this so youz can get back to sharing your M10 photos.

 

 

Sure I did. You're OK with giving your opinion, but not Ok with someone else having their own opinion?

[A miller]

Have nice day, Paul!

[Paul J]

 I didn't think so. 

[@ndy_ellis]

More colour on today's walk to the office

 

 

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[blaaz]

I love the look of these. What kind of PP did you do on them?

Hi! What lens did you use here?

[Lufizer]

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[Lufizer]

ISO 20.000

 

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[mdemeyer]

I’ll just weigh in by saying that I think the only negative in the original comment that started this debate was the use of the term “amateurish”. That’s a comment on the photographer and not the photograph and, beyond that being inappropriate (in my view), it actually didn’t tell me anything about what you thought could be improved. At the time I remember almost posting a question to ask you what you actually meant.

 

A more technically descriptive comment would have been useful and I doubt would have caused this debate.

 

Ok, Paul, so you have now made an opinion on my opinion. I will let you have the last iterative opinion on this so youz can get back to sharing your M10 photos.

Edited February 28, 2018 by mdemeyer

[A miller]

I’ll just weigh in by saying that I think the only negative in the original comment that started this debate was the use of the term “amateurish”. That’s a comment on the photographer and not the photograph and, beyond that being inappropriate (in my view), it actually didn’t tell me anything about what you thought could be improved. At the time I remember almost posting a question to ask you what you actually meant.

 

A more technically descriptive comment would have been useful and I doubt would have caused this debate.

 

 

I hear what you are saying.  But I am afraid that I cannot be more descriptive in a way that is going to satisfy you.   I am not looking to pontificate, just chime in with a simple and direct observation totally smothered in well-deserved compliments.    

 

I don't regard the "debate" that was sparked by the two people who criticized me as anything to fuss over.  It's just them being them and I am not losing a wink.

 

To have another go at it, I would say that the processing of this wonderful photo is like putting a pair of plasticy double Ds on a petite gentle natural beauty.  

 

It's like Pamela Anderson when the scene calls for Sophia Loren (mind you, though, in my photography world nearly all scenes call for Sophia Loren).  

 

Just my two cents for what it is worth

Edited February 28, 2018 by A miller

[Guest Nowhereman]

...I don't regard the "debate" that was sparked by the two people who criticized me as anything to fuss over.  It's just them being them and I am not losing a wink...

 

Here's the ad hominem stuff again, like when you told me above to "chill out" when I just made a simple statement. Tiresome.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Nowhereman

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[Guest Nowhereman]

This is taken at a singing-dancing party in Chiang Mai, a reunion of Bangkok childhood and school friends mostly 75-85 years old. This gentleman, at the higher end of the age range, was the best singer there, almost as good as the professional singer that worked the occasion.

 

M10 | Summilux 50 pre-ASPH | ISO 6400 | f/4.0 | 1/180 sec

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Edited February 28, 2018 by Nowhereman