M10 - the Image Thread

[BerndReini]

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[hmathias]

Is there a standard for sensors? A problem is that different sensors see the same light differently. Underwater videographers seem to like the Keldan lights - they are easy to ID in a shot of a diver using one or more typically two and sometimes more.

 

I will say this - the light from tungsten lights is much easier to look at then that from LED lights. I do not have the high CRI variety. I use them mainly as focusing lights for my underwater photography so as long as the AF sensor sees them that is OK. They might be OK for black and white photography.

 

Sure there is a standard, many of them — first you need a continuous spectrum light source: 3200 degree Kelvin tungsten, daylight, or HMI lights.  Just not LEDs or fluorescent lights. Sensors are designed for them.

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[waterlenz]

Sure there is a standard, many of them — first you need a continuous spectrum light source: 3200 degree Kelvin tungsten, daylight, or HMI lights.  Just not LEDs or fluorescent lights. Sensors are designed for them.

By standard I meant something numerical and repeatable. Tungsten 3200 works but how many have their studios set up this way?  As well I am not sure if the light frequency distribution among tungsten bulbs is the same. Daylight is variable in its degrees K within a day (think just before sunset) as well as location. Fluoro has the problems mentioned above - also there are various types of bulbs. There is a 5000K bulb that is not too bad - I have used these look at trannys on a light table. Even strobes have variable light color temps. They may have a specified color temp in K but the K value may vary with flash output level.

 

There are ways to have a controllable light source. For example, I have several microscopes that take arc lamps such as Hg and Xe that are used in combination with specialized filters (there is quite a range here).  Not all that practical.

 

BTW to get back on topic the pix in posts 96 and 97 were done with mixed light - outdoor as well as indoor lighting. The indoor lighting may have had various types of light sources - halogen bulbs, etc. The results look good!!

Edited January 23, 2017 by waterlenz

[hmathias]

By standard I meant something numerical and repeatable. Tungsten 3200 works but how many have their studios set up this way?  As well I am not sure if the light frequency distribution among tungsten bulbs is the same. Daylight is variable in its degrees K within a day (think just before sunset) as well as location. Fluoro has the problems mentioned above - also there are various types of bulbs. There is a 5000K bulb that is not too bad - I have used these look at trannys on a light table. Even strobes have variable light color temps. They may have a specified color temp in K but the K value may vary with flash output level.

 

There are ways to have a controllable light source. For example, I have several microscopes that take arc lamps such as Hg and Xe that are used in combination with specialized filters (there is quite a range here).  Not all that practical.

 

BTW to get back on topic the pix in posts 96 and 97 were done with mixed light - outdoor as well as indoor lighting. The indoor lighting may have had various types of light sources - halogen bulbs, etc. The results look good!!

 

Knowledgable studios are set up with 3200 Tungsten or Strobes which are daylight balanced and a reliable color source. Frequency is not an issue, except in motion pictures.

 

Daylight is variable, but it is a contiuous spectrum source and can be adjuster with color temperature in the camera, or later with LR or CO1. None od this is a problem except Solid State lighting LEDs and fluorescents.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Those posting images from their lovely new M10's, please add a link to an occasional .DNG file, preferably straight out of the camera, not touched yet by Light Room.  This will help the developers of various alternative raw file rendering programs get off to a fast start.

 

thanks,

 

scott

[hmathias]

Doesn't Leica accommodate you? I am really surprised that they don't help any and all developers have access.

[scott kirkpatrick]

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Doesn't Leica accommodate you? I am really surprised that they don't help any and all developers have access.

not to my knowledge, with the exception of Adobe.  Since I use other products, I am in favor of  openness.  Other camera manufacturers are not more open than Leica.  And the small tool producers are just too small to get attention.  This is unlike the app development business that is supported extensively by operating system providers.

 

scott

[chris_tribble]

A grey misty day in Cumbria, so some interior shots at 6400.  REALLY good to see these.  I've gone across the range with M lenses 21/28/35/50/75/90/135 + R 80-200 at 200 & 80 

 

They're all of the same scene with the focus on the rabbit's eye.  I used the EVF for these and it's very good to work with - and the movable focus point is beautifully implemented.

 

I've put DNGs in a Dropbox folder.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/804igo7ans11tl1/AABzD4YwtSapHNl6ouTbcUEqa?dl=0

 

First attempt.

 

General comment.

Minor adjustment to exposure

No Luminance NR applied

No WB adjustment (Auto WB)

 

VERY impressed by the quality of the files.  Very impressed by the high ISO performance.

 

A happy bunny 

 

I'll put up some 100% crops

 

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[chris_tribble]

Crops here. NB - I was using a light tripod and working quickly.  For the R lens I used a 2 second delay (VERY easy to set up the menus).

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Edited January 24, 2017 by chris_tribble

[Herr Barnack]

It seems that the M10 offers incremental refinements in image quality rather than a significant leap forward.  There is more to photography than image quality, but in my book IQ is near the top of the list, if not #1. 

 

In the M camera line, camera fatness is at this point a non-issue to me.  I shot with an M4-P for years and was never bothered by the fact that my M-P 240 was 0.137" fatter than my M4-P.  137/1000ths of an inch (3.5 mm) is tolerable; twice that would be bothersome.

 

I might be able to cope with a +7 mm fatboy M, if built in sensor dust reduction were part of the deal.  That having been said, I can live without auto sensor cleaning.  I clean my own sensor and it's not a big of deal.  I have found that I need to clean about every 4 months which is something I can live with.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Carlos Danger

[Falk61462]

John - thanks for posting these. Encouraging.  Now waiting to hear what's happening to the body I have on order.  

A question - have you been able to see how the M10 fares with IR contamination?  How black are the blacks of artificial fabrics?  REALLY interested to see if there's an improvement - the SL definitely won over the M240 on this count.

 

Very good question. I was also wondering whether now would be the time to sell all these UV/IR filters, which I still had to use on my M9 back from my M8 days, when switching to M10 from M9...

[chris_tribble]

Very good question. I was also wondering whether now would be the time to sell all these UV/IR filters, which I still had to use on my M9 back from my M8 days, when switching to M10 from M9...

I'll do a check with some black fabrics under different light conditions.  Important for me with stage work.

[scott kirkpatrick]

@Chris -- thanks for posting these.  Your files look quite like the files obtained from DPReview and the ones that Leica provides as demonstration shots for the M10.  They are different from the two files that Tobers took away from the store with him on his SD card and uploaded directly to a website.  They have a lot more Adobe stuff in them.

 

There's a tag Software: "1.0.1.0" in the Tobers files, identifying the firmware.

In your files, that tag says Software: "Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 6.8 (Windows)" .

Your files have two time stamps.  For example, xmp:ModifyDate="2017-01-24T15:35:20.763+00:00"  xmp:CreateDate="2017-01-24T14:54:57"

 

Now, (in my best police accent) please tell us what was your data doing on or about 15:35:20 on the 24th of January, 2017?

 

This will help us identify the source of the extra xmp information.  Sandy's theory is that it might be done by Leica if you read it out over a tether or by WiFi.  Another possibility is that you slid the chip into your laptop and Light Room's ingestor grabbed the files and put them into its DAM files, adding a few helpful things along the way.

 

scott

Edited January 24, 2017 by scott kirkpatrick

[scott kirkpatrick]

Chris -- although your last four pictures used the 80-200 Vario-Elmar-R at alternately 80 and 200 mm focal length, the EXIF reported 200 mm for all four of them.  I guess the M (in contrast to the SL, which has a ROM connection) can't read that information.

 

scott

[chris_tribble]

Chris -- although your last four pictures used the 80-200 Vario-Elmar-R at alternately 80 and 200 mm focal length, the EXIF reported 200 mm for all four of them.  I guess the M (in contrast to the SL, which has a ROM connection) can't read that information.

 

scott

Correct. The R to M adapter has no ROM as there's nothing on the M10 for it to speak to.

[chris_tribble]

This will help us identify the source of the extra xmp information.  Sandy's theory is that it might be done by Leica if you read it out over a tether or by WiFi.  Another possibility is that you slid the chip into your laptop and Light Room's ingestor grabbed the files and put them into its DAM files, adding a few helpful things along the way.

 

scott

Scott. Sounds about right. Actually they were ingested into LR CC on a Windows workstation via an SD card reader.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Could you crank off one more shot, and just read the file onto your desktop without letting LR touch it?  Put it in the same DropBox folder and I will take a look.  Maybe flowers this time.

 

scott

Edited January 24, 2017 by scott kirkpatrick

[chris_tribble]

Will do. Can't now as battery charging.

High ISO needed or just a vanilla file at appropriate setting?.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Will do. Can't now as battery charging.

High ISO needed or just a vanilla file at appropriate setting?.

Vanilla is fine.  Maybe 800 or 1600.

 

scott

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[chris_tribble]

Some more examples here with daylight.  I've put the untouched DNGs (straight from card and not via Lightroom here: 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rwwa8o4qer0any9/AADzoxN8ZZHEHFsaaHP3hTs1a?dl=0

Photos below - 135 AT and 35 Summicron Asph from 3200-400 (sorry about camera shake on the final 135 shot!)

I'll add crops to the next post.

 

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