jaapv Posted June 20, 2017 Share #401 Posted June 20, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Which 50 mm lenses? Aperture is not the parameter, the T-stop (transmission factor) determines the amount of light reaching the sensor. Although the difference to the aperture is usually not more than a few percent, it can be just enough to push the camera metering into the next EV value. Additionally, the definition of ISO values on digital sensors is somewhat flexible. Whereas film ISO values are established by standarized development processes and densitometric measurements, the ISO value of sensors is defined as "equivalent to film", which leaves the camera manufacturers quite some leeway. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 20, 2017 Posted June 20, 2017 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Why M240 users will (not) switch to M10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jmahto Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share #402 Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) I don't have much more to add than has already been said, but on Sunday three of us went out for a morning shoot, I use a M240P, there was a M10 and a SL. at one stage we all took the same shot from exactly the same position and using a 50mm , all at 200 ISO and f/8 both the SL & M10 metered at 1/125 and my 240P at 1/250. all shots came out identical. Whilst the M10 is a little smaller, I cannot see any advantage in changing, the chunkier 240 I thought was nicer to hold. Highlight mine... That is a + for M240. No? Edit: to be sure whether the shots were identical you need to compare the luminance values of a common part of the frame. Eyes could be deceiving sometimes (although one stop difference is easily noticeable). Edited June 22, 2017 by jmahto Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibramr Posted June 23, 2017 Share #403 Posted June 23, 2017 I am still in the realm of the M9 + M9M combination with the M240 sitting idly most of the time. With the excellent service I receive from these three bodies, I do not feel the urge to change and acquire the M10 before buying the Summilux 28mm, the M246, and the Apo Summicron 90mm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted June 24, 2017 Share #404 Posted June 24, 2017 Battery life is 'very' important in certain situations. No way I will pay 3.000 Euros more for a camera with less battery capacity than my M-P(240) - which is not impressive at all. It's less than half the capacity of my Canon EOS 1D III.A faster camera is good, though, but not with a lousy battery capacity. Better sensor? So good that we don't have to 'cheat the system' by having designed settings for each and every lens?Thinner camera is more sexy. Sure.Higher ISO-settings depends on the results. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share #405 Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) Battery life is 'very' important in certain situations. No way I will pay 3.000 Euros more for a camera with less battery capacity than my M-P(240) - which is not impressive at all. It's less than half the capacity of my Canon EOS 1D III. A faster camera is good, though, but not with a lousy battery capacity. Better sensor? So good that we don't have to 'cheat the system' by having designed settings for each and every lens? Thinner camera is more sexy. Sure. Higher ISO-settings depends on the results. Agree completely. There are many a times when I run out of juice in my Sony while shooting and have to change battery mid-shoot. They are small and cheap, I have four of them and now I am used to it but I never had to worry about M240's battery life. Sometimes I even forget where is my second battery. It is really important for me who doesn't carry any camera bag. I simply sling my camera across my shoulder with one lens and head out. I routinely shoot at 3200 in low light and perfectly fine with the results. M10 may have 1 stop more DR at that ISO but I know that if I am shooting in low light then I should not expect much shadow lift and I am careful with exposure and bracket if needed. Yes, you can find usage for ISO 12K but it is certainly not routine in my experience. I would rather carry a light tripod and shoot at base ISO. Of course, thinner is sexy. We all have gravitated to M because of form factor. No argument there. I just wish Leica would have found a better solution (like re-positioning card so that battery can use full width). Edited June 25, 2017 by jmahto 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted June 25, 2017 Share #406 Posted June 25, 2017 To Olsen & jmahto, may I say, respectfully, that while I get your beef about battery capacity, I have difficulty understand that it is such deal breaker. I am tempted to imagine you never came from a totally film era (I don't know of course!) when one had to stop and change film every 36 shots. The M10 battery does not make any such drag on the shooter. Jayant, you say you would rather use a tripod and shoot at base ISO. If your shooting could deal with that, surely it deal with occasional battery change. Just my observation, but I don't know your real shooting situation. I used to carry 30 rolls of film for one shoot. I got fast at changing film, in the dark, while the subject did not stop for me (theatrical stuff). Swapping batteries now is a breeze! Mostly I can shoot on the one battery, but would not move without the spare. My real beef is the cost of the batteries, at $220 each. I was lucky, my dealer threw a free one in with M10 when I bought it. Jayant, I think I shoot a lot in the same lighting as you possibly do. You would really appreciate the increase in DR and ISO. It does not go as far as the Sony A7S (which I have) but it is a real treat to use the M10 because of it's extended range. I am coming from an M9-P, not the M240, so the jump is great for me. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share #407 Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) To Olsen & jmahto, may I say, respectfully, that while I get your beef about battery capacity, I have difficulty understand that it is such deal breaker. I am tempted to imagine you never came from a totally film era (I don't know of course!) when one had to stop and change film every 36 shots. The M10 battery does not make any such drag on the shooter. Jayant, you say you would rather use a tripod and shoot at base ISO. If your shooting could deal with that, surely it deal with occasional battery change. Just my observation, but I don't know your real shooting situation. I used to carry 30 rolls of film for one shoot. I got fast at changing film, in the dark, while the subject did not stop for me (theatrical stuff). Swapping batteries now is a breeze! Mostly I can shoot on the one battery, but would not move without the spare. My real beef is the cost of the batteries, at $220 each. I was lucky, my dealer threw a free one in with M10 when I bought it. Jayant, I think I shoot a lot in the same lighting as you possibly do. You would really appreciate the increase in DR and ISO. It does not go as far as the Sony A7S (which I have) but it is a real treat to use the M10 because of it's extended range. I am coming from an M9-P, not the M240, so the jump is great for me. Comparison with film is not proper (I should add that I shot film for 5 years before switching to digital). In digital we expect more than few rolls of 36 exposures. While I loved my M9, battery life was a concern. I am not surprised that M9 users going to M10 are not thinking about battery capacity. Only when you get used to DSLR like capacity in M240, you start feeling the pinch in smaller capacity. I also said that style matters too. If you carry camera bag everywhere then it doesn't matter. I use my camera as it was intended. Over the shoulder without any accessory bag. Much like a phone. You charge it overnight and expect it to last for the whole day. Finally, I do admit that there is much more to photography than fussing about battery life. Edited June 25, 2017 by jmahto 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 25, 2017 Share #408 Posted June 25, 2017 If you carry camera bag everywhere then it doesn't matter. I use my camera as it was intended. Over the shoulder without any accessory bag. You need a bag to carry a spare battery? I guess we need to start a thread on the best bag to carry an M10 battery. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share #409 Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) You need a bag to carry a spare battery? I guess we need to start a thread on the best bag to carry an M10 battery. Jeff Absolutely. My pockets already have phone, wallet and keys. no room. Edit: Actually there are already battery holders out there. Now how will you carry the battery holder! https://www.amazon.com/Think-Tank-Photo-Battery-Holder/dp/B007TIYYQ2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1498360883&sr=8-3&keywords=camera+battery+holder Edited June 25, 2017 by jmahto Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 25, 2017 Share #410 Posted June 25, 2017 I actually have that pouch for travel. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted June 25, 2017 Share #411 Posted June 25, 2017 Absolutely. My pockets already have phone, wallet and keys. no room. Edit: Actually there are already battery holders out there. Now how will you carry the battery holder! https://www.amazon.com/Think-Tank-Photo-Battery-Holder/dp/B007TIYYQ2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1498360883&sr=8-3&keywords=camera+battery+holder Belt pouches are fantastic, for extra lens, battery, etc. I almost can't work without them. Basically, do what it takes to facilitate your work. That's partly why it is called work. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share #412 Posted June 25, 2017 Decades ago I used to have a fanny pack. Now it seems they are making a comeback. I have never tried belt pouches. I should give it a try but that adds to the cost of M10 (plus extra battery). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozu_shutterbugger Posted June 25, 2017 Share #413 Posted June 25, 2017 Decades ago I used to have a fanny pack. Now it seems they are making a comeback. I have never tried belt pouches. I should give it a try but that adds to the cost of M10 (plus extra battery). Jayant I bought a mountain smith fanny pack that has a camera pouch. If you know who Chris Burkard is, he launched it and it's considered hip.. VW bus ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozu_shutterbugger Posted June 25, 2017 Share #414 Posted June 25, 2017 Comparison with film is not proper (I should add that I shot film for 5 years before switching to digital). In digital we expect more than few rolls of 36 exposures. While I loved my M9, battery life was a concern. I am not surprised that M9 users going to M10 are not thinking about battery capacity. Only when you get used to DSLR like capacity in M240, you start feeling the pinch in smaller capacity. I also said that style matters too. If you carry camera bag everywhere then it doesn't matter. I use my camera as it was intended. Over the shoulder without any accessory bag. Much like a phone. You charge it overnight and expect it to last for the whole day. Finally, I do admit that there is much more to photography than fussing about battery life. and with that I say I bought a 240s. Every single thing on it is much less of a premium. Btw Sony a7s is gimicky. They cheat on the ISO in my opinion. As far as DR is concerned yes they have it a tad more but their jpegs suck. Every image needs a post. Speaking of speed, need to account for when the digital print is ready by. I personally don't find the Sony batteries to be that bad as much people complain. Getting back to Leica.. I am like Jayant. Carry it like a phone and today banged the hood of my summilux against my jeep while getting out lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 25, 2017 Share #415 Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) I hardly find my M240 jpegs significantly better than those of my Kolari mod A7s i must say. Matter of tastes though and i'm not a jpeg shooter anyway. All i can say is 12800 iso has become a normal setting for me now that the A7s mod is my main M camera and i don't have more digital noise with it than at 3200 iso with my M240. My next digital M will give me the same or won't be and it will have the same big battery as my M240 hopefully. Edited June 25, 2017 by lct 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk.kat Posted June 25, 2017 Share #416 Posted June 25, 2017 This is slightly OT: For those who have experienced both the 240 and the 10, which will you buy as your only rangefinder: M10 at full price or a M-P 240 new at £1k off rrrp? (Yes, I'm facing this decision right now [emoji2]) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted June 25, 2017 Share #417 Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) Comparisons with the film age is not relevant. For me it is a question of 'which camera to use': My M-P(240) or my EOS 1D III. The latter blows my Leica out of the water regarding battery capacity. Despite AF and all. I prefer my Leica when travelling since it is lighter and more compact. On a recent cruise to Jordan we took a 'tour' from Akaba to Petra and back. A very scenic journey with lots of photo scenes along the way. I spent the capacity of both my Leica batteries - and missed the beautiful sunset coming back to Akaba again. Damned! Video is not important, many say. Not before you want to sell you camera to younger people. They 'expect' the video capability. - I think it is 'nice'. Edited June 25, 2017 by Olsen Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 25, 2017 Share #418 Posted June 25, 2017 Which is exactly why I will take at least three batteries when travelling, regardless of camera type. Not just as insurance against shooting it empty, but also in case I do something stupid, for instance leaving Video running without noticing, or putting it in the bag with the LCD on and auto shut-off disabled. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted June 25, 2017 Share #419 Posted June 25, 2017 Which is exactly why I will take at least three batteries when travelling, regardless of camera type. Not just as insurance against shooting it empty, but also in case I do something stupid, for instance leaving Video running without noticing, or putting it in the bag with the LCD on and auto shut-off disabled. +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozu_shutterbugger Posted June 25, 2017 Share #420 Posted June 25, 2017 This is slightly OT: For those who have experienced both the 240 and the 10, which will you buy as your only rangefinder: M10 at full price or a M-P 240 new at £1k off rrrp? (Yes, I'm facing this decision right now [emoji2]) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I bought the MP 2 weeks ago under same condition Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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