M2 versus M3

[arno_nyhm]

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M2 and 50 lens are just perfect. you get to see some of the life that happens around your frame without having to open your left eye. and that will help you guessing for the right moment to hit the shutter. with the  M3 you get to this ability only when using 90mm or longer lenses, which you do not intend too soon.

 

the M2 you are looking for does have a selftimer, which benefits you with an extra automatic  2 second shuttertime (use B and the selftimer for a 2S)  and gives you the opportunity of using the longer times without having to carry a strap release. you can just put the camera on a wall or on a step and let the selftimer roll and take a shot with a longer time for you. of course a pushbuttonreverse would be nicer design, but the selftimer might come in handy some time.

 

the M3 doublestroke would not be easy to use, when you get into a hurry. of course that wont happen too often but i woul not be keen on getting a double stroke, if i could get a single stroke for the same price or even less.

[Michael Geschlecht]

M2 and 50 lens are just perfect. you get to see some of the life that happens around your frame without having to open your left eye. and that will help you guessing for the right moment to hit the shutter. with the  M3 you get to this ability only when using 90mm or longer lenses, which you do not intend too soon.

 

the M2 you are looking for does have a selftimer, which benefits you with an extra automatic  2 second shuttertime (use B and the selftimer for a 2S)  and gives you the opportunity of using the longer times without having to carry a strap release. you can just put the camera on a wall or on a step and let the selftimer roll and take a shot with a longer time for you. of course a pushbuttonreverse would be nicer design, but the selftimer might come in handy some time.

 

the M3 doublestroke would not be easy to use, when you get into a hurry. of course that wont happen too often but i woul not be keen on getting a double stroke, if i could get a single stroke for the same price or even less.

 

Hello Arno,

 

That is interesting about the 2 seconds shutter opening with your shutter speed dial set at "B" combined with releasing the cocked shutter with the self timer because: When I do that with an M3 the shutter stays open for 3 seconds.

 

By the way, did you know that the self timer on an M3 can be bypassed after cocking & any speed can be set & released by hand or with a cable release? And then the self timer can be run down with the unwound shutter not releasing or can simply be left charged & used later.

 

And, when the self timer is charged, that the self timer charging lever can be "neatly" stored in the "12 o'clock" position & then rotated to get access to the release button when needed.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited January 14, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht

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[semi-ambivalent]

It is my anecdotal understanding that a double stroke advance cannot be repaired except by replacing it with a single stroke advance. My M3 is SS so I've not had reason to look into it any further, just another data point. There are some Leica repair wizards out there.

 

s-a

[pico]

I cannot understand why anyone would object to having a double-stroke converted to single. Double-stroke was to placate previous Leica users who thought their tedious winding was somehow protecting film from breaking, which never happened anyway.

.

[mikemgb]

I cannot understand why anyone would object to having a double-stroke converted to single. Double-stroke was to placate previous Leica users who thought their tedious winding was somehow protecting film from breaking, which never happened anyway.

.

 

I wouldn't object, I would probably prefer a single stroke, but the cameras I listed in my first post are what is available, within my budget, at the dealer I am visiting.

 

I was leaning towards the M3 but the last several posts have leaned towards the M2, I like the fact you can use the M2 timer for 2 second shots, 2 seconds is about where I shoot most of my city nightscapes.

 

I will post a photo of my final choice on this thread on Monday.

[pico]

 I like the fact you can use the M2 timer for 2 second shots, 2 seconds is about where I shoot most of my city nightscapes.

 

The self-timer opens the shutter for two seconds?

Or do you mean a two second delay?

.

Edited January 15, 2017 by pico

[mikemgb]

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The self-timer opens the shutter for two seconds?

Or do you mean a two second delay?

.

 

Post #21 by arno_nyhm, if you set the shutter to B and use the self timer it opens the shutter for 2 seconds.

 

I remember some of my old SLRs doing that and it was a handy feature.

[semi-ambivalent]

I cannot understand why anyone would object to having a double-stroke converted to single.

Because it costs $. Irrelevant for many here but in The Real World someone wanting to get in to Leica and presented with a purchase opportunity of a DS might not want to take the (probably low) risk of future advance failure and the DS's elevated repair cost. Might just say 'the hell with that'.

 

s-a

[colint544]

The M3 is THE classic M, but the M2 has a charm all of its own. I've never used an M3 but I own an M2, and I adore it. Manually settting the shot counter is never a problem, and I like the extra space around the 50mm frame lines.The M2 is great for shooting 28mm and 35mm lenses, and the camera, as others have pointed out, focuses closer - 0.7 metres, as opposed to the 1 metre of the M3.

 

So, the perceived wisdom is - for shooting mainly 50mm, it's the M3. For a little more versatility (albeit with a compromise here and there) the M2 is more of an all rounder.

 

Off topic, I know - but the M5 is still relatively cheap and, for me, that's the ultimate analogue M shooter. Really, you can't go wrong with any M, though. They're all superb.

[Michael Hiles]

I have an M3 DS and an M2. Both are lovely. The M2 gets most used. When I travel (usually western Europe or the UK) I take the M2 + 35/50/90, and rarely use anything but the 50. 

 

The manual frame counter setting of the M2 is a non-issue - just wind on 1/2 way, rotate the now-delinked counter to -2 and complete the wind on twice to get to fresh film. That's it. If that causes a problem, don't risk getting out of bed.

 

DS on the M3 is fine. I have been told by an expert that the toughest of all the M cameras is the early M3 DS, and that changing to SS unnecessarily is an expensive waste of money. I believe it.

 

The M3 viewfinder (in top condition!!) is wonderful. And for 35mm or shorter, an external bright line finder is perfectly usable.

 

If I could have only one camera, it would be an M2 (with a Summicron 50). The vehicle for almost all my best pictures.

 

But either way, I think you will be very happy.

[mikemgb]

Thanks once again for the comments, my final choice was the M2. The main factor was that the viewfinder works a lot better for a glasses wearer, I can see the 50mm frame lines without mashing the camera against the glasses, I have never been able to do that with any other camera. Here it is, together with the Dual Range Summicron I also bought.

 

 

 

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[Doc Henry]

Thanks once again for the comments, my final choice was the M2. The main factor was that the viewfinder works a lot better for a glasses wearer, I can see the 50mm frame lines without mashing the camera against the glasses, I have never been able to do that with any other camera. Here it is, together with the Dual Range Summicron I also bought.

 

 

 

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Bravo Mike , you'll appreciate photography in another manner.

Many contributors of our film thread use the DR Summicron

Good photos ...  and don't forget our thread 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/page-1312

Thanks

Henry

 

... may be you already know these links

https://www.casualphotophile.com/2015/04/09/4-reasons-why-the-leica-m2-is-better-than-the-m3/

http://www.35mmc.com/29/04/2015/the-leica-m2/

Edited January 16, 2017 by Doc Henry

[Michael Hiles]

Wonderful combination. That Summicron is superb (they all are), and the DR feature is a valuable bonus. You are going to be happy.

 

Remember the frame counter trick. Wind the shutter half way - the frame counter moves freely without ratcheting - set the counter to -2. Wind on the two first frames as usual and Bob's Your Uncle.

[mikemgb]

Thank you Doc and Michael, I am really looking forward to running my first film through the camera. I will have it in hand tomorrow, I had it shipped to me to save paying sales tax on it.

 

I didn't know those links Doc, entertaining reading!

 

 

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[mikemgb]

I have the camera in hand and I have a film loaded, the one thing I was not expecting was the weight, this sucker weighs more than the Zenit E that was my first SLR! I love the solid feel of it though and the weight doesn't actually bother me at all.

 

Now I guess I need to start a thread asking what is the best bag to accommodate an M2 and a D-Lux typ 109.

Edited January 18, 2017 by mikemgb

[mikemgb]

Hello Mike,

 

The purpose of the rounded corners on the 50mm framelines was to show people what the scene would be when the 50mm lens lens was focused at Infinity & there was Kodachrome in the camera.

 

For using 28mm & shorter lenses an external viewfinder is used for both. Then the larger M3 range/viewfinder image allows for more accurate focusing.

 

The M3 is at its best with a 90mm lens. There is the 0.91X image magnification coupled with a discreet border outside of the lens's field of view to allow the photographer to see things surrounding the image space. This makes it easier to judge what to include or what to leave out.

 

For a 135mm lens w/o goggles the M3's 0.91X image magnification is clearly better. And the added space around the image frame is helpful when composing.

 

The 135mm lens with "goggles" with either shows the image within the 90mm frame magnified 1.5X.

 

At 50mm it is a subjective choice as to which is preferable: 0.91X image magnification with an M3 or 0.72X image magnification with an M2 with a view of what is just outside the frame lines. Both have their advantages.

 

35mm is the complex choice: M2 is 0.72X image magnification with any 35mm lens. Except 0.48X with "goggled " lenses. 

 

An M3 is 0.91X image magnification for focusing with an external finder with any "un-goggled" 35mm lens. Or: "Goggled" .60X image magnification with a completely usable range/viewfinder with a Version I Summicron (And a few V2 & V3 which are pretty much all in collections.). Or also .60X with some various F2.8 & F3.5 goggled Summarons from the 20th Century.

 

Beyond that: It is good to get a "quick load" with either. It works slightly faster with an M2.

 

Otherwise the 2 cameras are pretty much the same as far as operation goes.

 

Both take the Leitz proprietary flash sockets which were unfortunately not standardized on by the rest of the photo industry. There are simple push on adapters available to convert these to the p/c standard. Also: No hot shoe on either.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

I have started my hunt for some flash adapters, does anyone know where some may be available for a less than ridiculous price? The best I have seen so far is $52, if that's what they cost so be it but it does seem very high.

Edited January 18, 2017 by mikemgb

[Michael Hiles]

Ebay has them for about $16. $52 seems way too high. A serious Leica dealer might also have them.

 

You should also look for the white plugs to cover the flash plugs when you are not using them. Not crucial, but nice protection.

[mikemgb]

Ebay has them for about $16. $52 seems way too high. A serious Leica dealer might also have them.

 

You should also look for the white plugs to cover the flash plugs when you are not using them. Not crucial, but nice protection.

 

I did find a flash adapter on Ebay for a reasonable price, I also found a working flash with a sync cable socket in my collection. Still trying to decide on a Leicameter and a quick load kit.

[Michael Hiles]

I would beware of Leicameters - they are now old and finding one in top condition might be a challenge. And the old 625 battery is no longer available - there are replacements by how satisfactory they are may be debatable.

 

I was recently in a position to consider a quick load kit for my M2 & M3 - and I was advised against it by a highly respected repair person. The old system is not a pain, and it works very well. I have been using it since the 1960s and my mental state is only questioned by my wife.

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[mikemgb]

Thank you Michael, I wasn't aware the meter needed a battery. I'll stick with Sunny 16 and my vintage Sekonic if needed.

 

I'm also on the fence about the quick load, 50% of people like it, 50% say don't bother. I'll probably just find an extra reel or two, although have you seen the prices of them on ebay these days??

 

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