Leica M-D 262 six months user report review (at overgaard.dk)

[Tailwagger]

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However, I've been waiting a long time for the new 15 inch MacBook Pro to replace my current 6 year old MacBook Pro.  I must say that I'm not at all impressed with the latest offering with respect to absence of SC card and USB slots, limited RAM expansion, and relatively high price for the privilege.  So much for a 'Pro' model where Apple reduces convenience/functionality. I've not bought one yet but I don't want a PC...

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L Precisely!  Mine just crossed the 4 year threshold.  My son just went off to college and having failed as a parent, I was forced to buy him a new laptop last summer.  Skylake i7,  2GB nVidia, 16GB, 15", 4K touch screen, 512GB NVMe.... $1400 nearly 6 months ago.   A comparable Mac is double. Despite my abhorrence for windows, that is simply too much of a premium to be endured.  

[jlindstrom]

I have a 3 year old MacPro for my photography and it performs perfectly. However, I've been waiting a long time for the new 15 inch MacBook Pro to replace my current 6 year old MacBook Pro. I must say that I'm not at all impressed with the latest offering with respect to absence of SC card and USB slots, limited RAM expansion, and relatively high price for the privilege. So much for a 'Pro' model where Apple reduces convenience/functionality. I've not bought one yet but I don't want a PC...

Which is why I travel with a 12" retina macbook fully loaded & every 5 or so buy the latest & greatest fully loaded 27" imac.

 

On the road I can preview my images, but I only post process back home with the iMac.

 

Right now waiting for Apple to upgrade the 5K iMac and then see about upgrading my current iMac.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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[ramarren]

So what was a thread for Thorsten's use/review of the M-D (which I've bookmarked to read, thank you Thorsten) becomes an Apple Whiner thread. Sheesh. 

 

My iPads and Macs all do precisely what I want, no more no less, and I use iCloud for data files (not photos) and I've never used iPhoto or Photos. Both my Macs have SD card slots (new MacBook Air, 2012 Mac mini). If they didn't, I'd use the USB-C to USB adapter and plug in my Lexar USB3 Card Reader (I've tested this configuration, it works perfectly). All my iPads, and my iPhone 6, can read both raw and JPEG files from SD, SDHC, and SDXC cards with the Lightning to SD Card Camera Reader, no problem at all.  Lightroom 6.8, Flare 2, and Affinity runs beautifully on both Macs and processes my files nicely. PhotoRAW, SnapSeed, and Photogene 4 do the same on all the iOS devices. All the devices are running latest version of iOS or macOS, whichever is appropriate, and the latest versions of whatever apps I want to use. 

 

You people have issues that have little to do with Apple or any of this hardware or software... 

Edited December 19, 2016 by ramarren

[Tailwagger]

I've started cutting down on my use of Apple products as a consequence of that. Who would have though you would ever get tired of Apple. But it's happening. 

 

Try reading the thread.   The comments are a direct reaction to those of the OP, quoted above.  Terrific, if your current Mac works for you. Obviously there are those of us for whom it isnt.  Perhaps our work flow pushes things a little harder than you.  

Edited December 19, 2016 by Tailwagger

[ramarren]

Try reading the thread.   The comments are a direct reaction to those of the OP, quoted above.  Terrific, if your current Mac works for you. Obviously there are those of us for whom it isnt.  Perhaps our work flow pushes things a little harder than you.  

 

 

Of course I've read the whole thread. A bunch of people whining about little crap that takes two seconds to get out of the way if they understood it properly, or telling things about it that are myth and suspicion rather than fact. 

 

As I said, you folks have issues that are well beyond anything Apple hardware or software. And don't give me that snobbish elitist nonsense: "Perhaps our work flow pushes things a little harder than you." Nothing in this thread has anything to do with my or your workflow, photographic or otherwise, or whether you or I are 'pushing' it in any way at all. Most of it is either myth or just simple and plain wrong. You don't like some systems defaults, or features, or you think the boogieman is going to steal your data, or you don't trust the security, you don't like the price .... whine whine whine. 

 

I thought this thread would be an interesting discussion of Thorsten's article about the M-D, not a rant about some mythical problems with a company's computer systems. What a waste of time.

 

You don't like a particular computer? Buy something else. I hope that one does nothing to annoy you, I surely don't want to hear about it if it does. I can find that annoying meme in the "Mac vs Windows" and "iOS vs Android" self-flagellation forums anytime I want. 

[earleygallery]

Of course I've read the whole thread. A bunch of people whining about little crap that takes two seconds to get out of the way if they understood it properly, or telling things about it that are myth and suspicion rather than fact. 

 

As I said, you folks have issues that are well beyond anything Apple hardware or software. And don't give me that snobbish elitist nonsense: "Perhaps our work flow pushes things a little harder than you." Nothing in this thread has anything to do with my or your workflow, photographic or otherwise, or whether you or I are 'pushing' it in any way at all. Most of it is either myth or just simple and plain wrong. You don't like some systems defaults, or features, or you think the boogieman is going to steal your data, or you don't trust the security, you don't like the price .... whine whine whine. 

 

I thought this thread would be an interesting discussion of Thorsten's article about the M-D, not a rant about some mythical problems with a company's computer systems. What a waste of time.

 

You don't like a particular computer? Buy something else. I hope that one does nothing to annoy you, I surely don't want to hear about it if it does. I can find that annoying meme in the "Mac vs Windows" and "iOS vs Android" self-flagellation forums anytime I want. 

 

LOL you're whining more than the people you're complaining about! 

[Exodies]

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Whining about whining (i.e. metawhining) is most definitely not the same as whining. It's comparable to making wishes about wishes; a different class of fairy is responsible for granting each type.

[ianman]

Agree on the aspect that it is in not only in photography. I've started cutting down on my use of Apple products as a consequence of that. Who would have though you would ever get tired of Apple. But it's happening. 

 

Same here. The problem is, Apple is now catering for the consumer crowd that they inherited when they launched their telephone. They used to be top of the class making pro oriented hardware and software, but have made it abundantly clear that they are no longer interested. I can understand that, the consumer market is much bigger of course. My own problem is that I have been using Macs at home and at work since 1986 and although Apple has become crap, it is still the least crap of the bunch.

 

Sorry, now back on topic for me !!

Edited December 20, 2016 by ianman

[earleygallery]

Whining about whining (i.e. metawhining) is most definitely not the same as whining. It's comparable to making wishes about wishes; a different class of fairy is responsible for granting each type.

 

Just be careful mentioning fairies, we don't want anyone to say they they're not real - that would be unthinkable for some poor unfortunate fairy out there.

[Tailwagger]

Of course I've read the whole thread. A bunch of people whining about little crap that takes two seconds to get out of the way if they understood it properly, or telling things about it that are myth and suspicion rather than fact. 

 

As I said, you folks have issues that are well beyond anything Apple hardware or software. And don't give me that snobbish elitist nonsense: "Perhaps our work flow pushes things a little harder than you." Nothing in this thread has anything to do with my or your workflow, photographic or otherwise, or whether you or I are 'pushing' it in any way at all. Most of it is either myth or just simple and plain wrong. You don't like some systems defaults, or features, or you think the boogieman is going to steal your data, or you don't trust the security, you don't like the price .... whine whine whine. 

 

I thought this thread would be an interesting discussion of Thorsten's article about the M-D, not a rant about some mythical problems with a company's computer systems. What a waste of time.

 

You don't like a particular computer? Buy something else. I hope that one does nothing to annoy you, I surely don't want to hear about it if it does. I can find that annoying meme in the "Mac vs Windows" and "iOS vs Android" self-flagellation forums anytime I want. 

 

You own the wrong camera.  You need one with a mirror.  

[Exodies]

Ouch

[Photon42]

I've been working for quite some time on my first user report on the Leica M-D 262. It's a lengthy piece that comes around most things. I hope you enjoy it. Cut it up over some reading sessions so you don't spend all weekend on it :-)

 

"What's This - A Digital Camera Without a Screen?"

 

 

Thanks for the nice write-up. Definitely enjoyed it. I smiled when I read the Einstein paragraph. 

[ramarren]

You own the wrong camera.  You need one with a mirror.  

 

 

The M-D already has a mirror in it: it is a part of the rangefinder. 

[Future2001]

Thank you for the review!!

[colonel]

I used to have a hard stance, minimalist vs features vs feature rich, however I have come to believe I there isnt a one size solution.

 

I love the M240 for simplicity but when I need full automation I use a Sony, some of the stuff like face registration and auto eye focus really does work and is fantastic for events.

 

But I really lust after the M-D as the ultimate in shooting thought. I am just wondering whether to get one new, second hand or wait for the next generation

 

Ho humm ..

[Roberto Watson]

I´ve just got my M-D, a dream come true. It is the renaissance of my M6, Very happy with it!

 

Just a question, different from my two previous digital Leicas (M-E and Monochrome), M-D first actuation was number L1000471.DNG and second L1000472.DNG. Camera was boxed sealed just like my two previous bodies. Battery was uncharged so I had to charge it as instructions says. Camera focus is perfect at least with my 50/2 (tomorrow I will try the rest of my lenses). And body does´t seem to have a single trace of use. Is this normal?

Bought from B&H, just like my two other Leicas.

 

By the way, Happy 2017!

[BjarniM]

#Roberto Watson:

 

I've seen this happen when i've been switching cards between cameras.

[Roberto Watson]

Rigth BjarniM this is the case, I tried to format the card of one of my leicas and for some reason I couldn't and use it anyway.

Thank you, tomorrow when I have some spare time (at work) I'll do it properly.

Thank you BjarniM!

[Distagon]

I've been working for quite some time on my first user report on the Leica M-D 262.

 

Thanks Thorsten, I really enjoyed reading your review.

Quite a few things peaked my interest.

 

From the review:

There existed an era where, when you left your home, nobody could call you because there were no telephones outside buildings.

 

 

It wasn't that long ago, maybe only 25 years.  Now mobile phones are so ingrained into our lives now that one almost forgets that time of dialling landline phones and the freedom from disturbance when one walked away from them.

 

I had always thought of the M-D 262 as an absurdly retro product, particularly as I sometimes re-shoot images because chimping shows that the exposure was not ideal or the viewfinder framing imperfect.

 

But reminding us of that less technologically cluttered age: I get that.

 

It has definitely made me take the M-D more seriously.

 

Speaking of battery, a photographer in Canada emailed me and suggested the interesting concept that the Leica M-D could have a good, old-school advance lever on top (as the ones you used to have on film cameras to advance the film to the next frame) which function would be to charge the camera with enough energy to record the digital image and keep the light meter and red numbers in the viewfinder alive.

 

That is a really interesting idea.

 

The entire function of the advance lever in a film camera is to give the mechanical system enough energy to complete one operating cycle.  An electronic camera without a screen, EVF, Wifi or GPS should use much less energy that a physical film wind and shutter cock.

 

As absurd as it might seem, the film advance is thing I really miss in digital photography.  I have two mechanical film cameras, and the action of winding them on helps me appreciate the precision and beauty of the camera as an instrument.

 

More significantly, it would reduce or obviate the need for battery chargers and cables and international power adapters, making the entire camera system even more compact and portable.  That might not be a big advantage to other camera systems, but it plays to one of the M system's key strengths.

 

The major drawback is that it would remove the option of "continuous" shooting.  (Of course, film cameras have the Leicavit but that would be a huge retrograde step in a digital camera, to the point of being ridiculous.)

 

I wouldn't want to have a sealed body with dedicated internal battery and memory, without a baseplate.  I'd still want to capacity to remove the battery and charge or replace it, particularly as the camera's lifecycle should be measured in many decades.  An M should never be designed for planned obsolescence, like a sealed iPhone.

 

Interesting.

 

As I have pointed out a few times, the Leica M-D 262 is obviously the Leica M 240 without a screen. What if they designed a M-D without a screen, from scratch? 

Likely some of the solutions could be done differently. I would say away with the thumb dial and the “video button” (the silver button on top that is the video start/stop on the Leica M 240). 

...

 

I wonder if the camera could be made thinner? A digital Leica M that is as thin as the Leica M6, Leica MP...

 

This description sounds very much like an M-D version of the rumoured M10:

- no video button

- form factor of the Leica MP

- (shift the ISO dial from the left side of the viewfinder down to the back of the body)

 

The M-D 262 seems to have provoked enough interest and affection in the market that there is a good chance we will indeed see an "M-D10" such as you describe in the next 2-3 years.  They probably have plenty of M-D 262 inventory to sell before that happens.

 

 

What I mean is, just because a camera is classic, doesn't mean it can't be renewed, and improved with modern precision machinery and improved technology.

 

Bravo!

 

As I use two Leica M 240's and one Leica M-D 262 as my main cameras, my experience is that I use the Leica M-D 262 when I want to go purist and have fun. When I have something that demands certainty for results, I go for the M 240. 

I have both, so I have the choice. I wonder if I were only to get one camera, which one would I get?

 

I'm intrigued by the concept of the Leica M-D 262.

 

If I, too, could justify keeping multiple digital Ms I would seriously consider it.  (But even then, I would give priority to a Monochrom body before the M-D.)

 

As a single body user, though, the LiveView / EVF functionality of the M240 is too important.

 

There are lesser functions of the LCD/EVF that I would not want to give up, such as checking rangefinder calibration against On-Sensor focus.  I do highly value the ability to check composition and exposure on images as I shoot, but that is exactly what the M-D's operational concept is rejecting.  (And I would consider the LCD/EVF even more important for a Monochrom version, due to its intolerance to over-exposing highlights.)

 

Much the most important function for me, though, is framing and composing for lenses with focal lengths that don't agree well with a viewfinder.  For a x0.68 viewfinder, that is anything wider than 28 mm.  I would not give up the LCD/EVF only to buy into expensive, dedicated wide angle optical viewfinders or the Frankenfinder.  Were I shooting an M-D, I would rather be limited to the 28-90mm focal range.

 

 

For me, the LCD/EVF body (M240 or the coming M10) remains the most flexible of all the M bodies and an M-D could only be a third-order indulgence.  Of course, we are all different in our photographic styles and preferences so there is clearly a place for the M-D as an on-going product line variant.

 

Thanks for the review.

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Hallo,

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[nikau]

As an M-D owner, I also thoroughly enjoyed Thorsten's review and have referred back to it several times. Somewhere in the forum a member wondered whether the M-D would be a novelty that buyers would soon get over and return to their "fully featured" Leicas. I'm coming up to (only) three months with mine and feel no such urge. Mind you, it's not my only body so on those occasions that a screen would be useful I have a choice. Eighty per cent of the time, it's the M-D that I reach for. One of the things I like most is that you can change the ISO in a flash, with a thumb, even while looking through the viewfinder! The main thing, though, is that it's such a wonderful bridge between the digital and the film ways of doing things. For me this is ideal, but I'm stopping short of arguing that the camera should stop working after 36 exposures until you remove the SD card and insert another. Or that the contents of the card should only be downloaded in total darkness.