Jump to content
Overgaard

Leica M-D 262 six months user report review (at overgaard.dk)

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I've been working for quite some time on my first user report on the Leica M-D 262. It's a lengthy piece that comes around most things. I hope you enjoy it. Cut it up over some reading sessions so you don't spend all weekend on it :-)

 

"What's This - A Digital Camera Without a Screen?"

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great review and beautiful pictures!

 

I absolutely love my M-D, but it has two (very minor) flaws:

- the number of remaining images should NOT be shown automatically after each shot.  It's quite annoying to be honest.

- it would be great if it only showed the framelines of the current lens.

 

Other than that, it's about as perfect a digital camera as I could wish for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the concise review Thorsten - one of the better camera reviews I have read in a very long time. To me it really comes down to "our attention has been moved from improving our own eye, to trying to understand all the technology that promises to improve our photography"... and "Standing in the midst of this never-ending shit-storm of fancy names and features from "number of auto focus points" to "carbon tripods", you tend to lose track of what is important and what is not...  a current dilemma not only in making a photograph but in so many other aspects of everyday life...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Thorsten, for a very thoughtful article.  I'm certain that had the M8 been screenless, and Leica continued to make a screenless version of each successive model, I would today own M-D 262's instead of M240's.  However now I can't fathom not wanting the screen.  I rarely if ever use the screen (rarely change ISO, always have auto-review set to "OFF") but on the occasions I do wish to change a setting or check focus, or histogram, or the actual framing, I'm glad its there.  I'm glad the menus are there, all in one place, all easy to read.  I'm also glad to have LV/EVF for the occasions I want to press a non-rangefinder lens into service, do an extreme close-up, or carry only one finder when I've got several ultra-wide lenses in my bag.   And now that JPG quality has come up to acceptible standards, I'm glad to have that option as well, for times when I'm doing event photos for others who basically want nothing more than well-composed snapshots.  These I can burn to a CD with no fuss.

 

I never really understood the minimalist zen thing.  I never needed a meterless Leica, as I could easily ignore the meter in my M6.  Just as I ignore the Video function, LV, EVF port, and LCD screen of my M240's.  I can manually shift a floppy-paddle transmission without needing them to delete the automatic capability.  Although I don't drink or smoke, I can keep a bottle of scotch and a box of cigars around for guests without feeling tempted or discomforted by their presence. 

 

Clearly it's a matter of personal preference, and it's great that Leica recognizes this and offers models to suit everyone's.  

Edited by bocaburger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Thorsten. I actually do use the frameline selector, so I must be quite rare

  

 

 

Ha ha, yes sorry to make it sound like you are a relic, but it is a small percentage using it :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Great review and beautiful pictures!

 

I absolutely love my M-D, but it has two (very minor) flaws:

- the number of remaining images should NOT be shown automatically after each shot.  It's quite annoying to be honest.

- it would be great if it only showed the framelines of the current lens.

 

Other than that, it's about as perfect a digital camera as I could wish for.

 

Yes, the number after each photos is slightly confusing some times. I find that I just don't look at it anymore. It seems to be not relevant when you start out with more than 1,000 free frames on the card. 

 

The frame lines they could actually cut down to just the one frame, based on the 6-bit code. Maybe it will happen soon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the concise review Thorsten - one of the better camera reviews I have read in a very long time. To me it really comes down to "our attention has been moved from improving our own eye, to trying to understand all the technology that promises to improve our photography"... and "Standing in the midst of this never-ending shit-storm of fancy names and features from "number of auto focus points" to "carbon tripods", you tend to lose track of what is important and what is not...  a current dilemma not only in making a photograph but in so many other aspects of everyday life...

 

Agree on the aspect that it is in not only in photography. I've started cutting down on my use of Apple products as a consequence of that. Who would have though you would ever get tired of Apple. But it's happening. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Thorsten, for a very thoughtful article.  I'm certain that had the M8 been screenless, and Leica continued to make a screenless version of each successive model, I would today own M-D 262's instead of M240's.  However now I can't fathom not wanting the screen.  I rarely if ever use the screen (rarely change ISO, always have auto-review set to "OFF") but on the occasions I do wish to change a setting or check focus, or histogram, or the actual framing, I'm glad its there.  I'm glad the menus are there, all in one place, all easy to read.  I'm also glad to have LV/EVF for the occasions I want to press a non-rangefinder lens into service, do an extreme close-up, or carry only one finder when I've got several ultra-wide lenses in my bag.   And now that JPG quality has come up to acceptible standards, I'm glad to have that option as well, for times when I'm doing event photos for others who basically want nothing more than well-composed snapshots.  These I can burn to a CD with no fuss.

 

I never really understood the minimalist zen thing.  I never needed a meterless Leica, as I could easily ignore the meter in my M6.  Just as I ignore the Video function, LV, EVF port, and LCD screen of my M240's.  I can manually shift a floppy-paddle transmission without needing them to delete the automatic capability.  Although I don't drink or smoke, I can keep a bottle of scotch and a box of cigars around for guests without feeling tempted or discomforted by their presence. 

 

Clearly it's a matter of personal preference, and it's great that Leica recognizes this and offers models to suit everyone's.  

 

The M-D 262 makes you appreciate simplicity, but also makes your realize the few things like the EVF you actually use and that helps you. The rest of the menu, there's not much I miss. I personally think Leica Camera AG as well got carried away with the possibilities to add endless menu items into a camera. I hope they are re-thinking that now; at least it should be possible in a future M to program the menu to your personal preference. With apps and wifi that should be easy to set up a menu setting app on the computer that dictates how the menu should be on the camera. 

 

I wrote an article at The.me on the wheels and the menus as well:

http://www.the.me/inventing-the-wheel-for-photography-by-thorsten-overgaard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^but that doesn't happen without consequences... to me the big guestion is what do you replace the Apple gadgets with? Fex on the phones, I've tried to switch to Android and always keep coming back.

 

On the same note it's one of the reasons I like Leicas so much. Most of the crap has been cut out.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^but that doesn't happen without consequences... to me the big guestion is what do you replace the Apple gadgets with? Fex on the phones, I've tried to switch to Android and always keep coming back.

 

On the same note it's one of the reasons I like Leicas so much. Most of the crap has been cut out.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

Oh, don't get me started :-)

 

There's mainly issues with privacy/security in using Apple Photos, the iCloud services and so on. So you have to set up your devices so they don't get their fingers into the photos files (and you have to do that every time you update as they reset to default sharing, iDrive and all after every system update!). I don't expect to be able to influence the general growing complexity of Apple, but I work on ways to separate my files from Apple. The philosophy on data files, photographs and music is much the same: You disconnect from a software philosophy that takes over ownership of your files and instead run your own main archive and keep the OS X from taking it over. 

 

The general Apple philosophy has moved to connecting you with Pay, Music and all so you are online and paying all the time, and without control of your files if you disconnect. (If you disconnect from iCloud, the files stay in the iCloud but is deleted on your machine as far as calendar, addresses and notes goes). That goes against so many ideas of ownership and how to preserve file integrity that it's fundamentally going to be the death of Apple. They should stay away from content providing (as they cannot handle big file numbers and always fail to make the synchronization work) and focus on make tools that enable you to produce. That was the original aim of Apple. Don't know if it will be possible to change their mind. As a user you have the choice to influence them (kick in the door and tell them), or simply stop buying their products. I've been trying to kick in their door, and if that doesn't work, then the solution is to find other ways to produce photographs and other intellectual property outside of their sphere. 

 

The new MacBook Pro is an early warning. So many simply don't buy, and many who did, return them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

true, the only photos I allow in the cloud are my iphone "snappies" or scaled down versions I've chosen to share on purpose. Others stay on my hard drive.

 

But back to topic, the M-D. It really does sound like a brilliant thing.. Now if Leica were to continue on this path and provide a Leica MM-D and a Q-D. That'd really be something [emoji16]

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure a MM without screen will arrive at some point. A Leia Q without screen, I don't believe in that. The screen is essential on the Q which is sort of a really successful mix of iPhone and Leica M. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to go off topic, but Thorsten you were very generous with advice when I bought my M9.

 

Why do you let iCloud anywhere near your photos? Seriously, you don't need iCloud for that at all. I duplicate all my dng files onto a separate 2TB passport drive when downloading (as you recommended some time ago) and I store my photos on DropBox (mirrored across three computer, each backed up on Time Machine). Sure, LightRoom has its own catalogue, which I run on my home Mac Pro, but I don't let Apple Photos or iCloud anywhere near my photos.

 

iCloud was brilliant in the early days, but when they ditched document support, I switched to DropBox and I haven't looked back. Google offers a similar service, but I won't let Apple or Microsoft anywhere near my files ...

 

Cheers

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to go off topic, but Thorsten you were very generous with advice when I bought my M9.

 

Why do you let iCloud anywhere near your photos? Seriously, you don't need iCloud for that at all. I duplicate all my dng files onto a separate 2TB passport drive when downloading (as you recommended some time ago) and I store my photos on DropBox (mirrored across three computer, each backed up on Time Machine). Sure, LightRoom has its own catalogue, which I run on my home Mac Pro, but I don't let Apple Photos or iCloud anywhere near my photos.

 

iCloud was brilliant in the early days, but when they ditched document support, I switched to DropBox and I haven't looked back. Google offers a similar service, but I won't let Apple or Microsoft anywhere near my files ...

 

Cheers

John

 

 

You are absolutely right.

 

For photographs, I don't use Photos. Only Lightroom, and as you are familiar with I have certain ways of making sure that ones files are always owned by oneself and never taken over by software clouds or other.

 

A similar strategy should be possible for all of your data and files, and most cloud services prevent that control and power of choice. 

 

The comment on Apple is a general concern: Apple automatically turn on Photos sharing across devices, geotagging, iDrive and Backup EVERY time you update the software and or buy a new iPhone. And they turn on Music every time as well. 

In other words, they presume strongly (and with no choice given) that you want to identify yourself with ONE Apple ID and use all of their cloud-based services, as well as paid storage service and music streaming service. 

 

So it's a process to go through this every time, immediately, to turn all that off. For once, it's a security matter that you don't want to share your iPhone photos, as well as their geolocation. Further, it's a matter of integrity of your files that you don't allow iCloud to copy them. Generally, what happens when you start sharing data with the cloud is that Apple take "ownership": Which means that when you later turn off any of these services, they keep your data and delete them on your device. It's quite crazy, considering it's your data/music/photos in the first place and that they offer no backup of it (no, there is no backup of iCloud whatsoever - and there is a 30 day/365 day backup of DropBox, depending on subscription). In essence, if you disconnect from the cloud, then forget your password or security questions, you cannot get your data back. And even if you can, you cannot get the data out of the Apple iCloud services easily (like out of calendar, address book, etc, and while you can take photos out of Photos, it's slow and often fail copying even small quantities of 1,000 - 5,000 photos; and then they won't let you delete them for real till after 30 days; why your device is still loaded with data). It's complete mess, a violation of privacy and ownership. And it's forced onto you ever time you update the software (which is now almost once a month). As said, that is another story, but one I will get to in steps, because it affects us all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure a MM without screen will arrive at some point. A Leia Q without screen, I don't believe in that. The screen is essential on the Q which is sort of a really successful mix of iPhone and Leica M.

Absolutely correct about the Q. It will never happen. It would simply eat way too much into M sales and it would alter the cameras basic functionalities in such fundamental ways it wouldn't be a Q anymore.

 

But the MM-D would be like the pinnacle of simplification. You take the most back-to-basics color digital camera to date and simplify it even more.. you remove the color.

 

Now if this would really be based on M-D, so no movies or evf etc, it would be a dream machine for many. And even with current sensors it would provide so much "performance" in monochrom form that it'd be really really hard to justify any upgrades going forwards.

 

This performance/upgrade necessity already applies to current M typ262 & M-D.

 

The M 240 based cameras naturally have same capabilities, BUT the video feature & evf are things that will develop further continuosly. And that's where GAS starts creeping in.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree on the aspect that it is in not only in photography. I've started cutting down on my use of Apple products as a consequence of that. Who would have though you would ever get tired of Apple. But it's happening. 

 

Your not the only one. This is their second go round where they've gotten so full of themselves that their on the verge of self-destructing...  a few years after the last time Jobs went away.    Cook may wave the wand and scepter around on stage as well as Jobs ever did, but he and his current team have proven they have neither the vision nor the customer understanding to keep the magic coming, let alone compelling. The products are trading on the past, they steadfastly refuse to adopt technologies where others got their first (touch screen, 4k, two button mouse!), yet as we've seen with the imposition of thunderbolt and the recent phone jack and SD slot deletion, they have no problem imposing their will on customers regardless of how infuriatingly inconvenient it might be.  Not to mention shipping last years tech at premium prices.   

 

I'm done buying anything from them unless and until, if ever, they realize who is serves who.  My kingdom for PS/LR (or reasonable equivalent) on Linux.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a 3 year old MacPro for my photography and it performs perfectly.  However, I've been waiting a long time for the new 15 inch MacBook Pro to replace my current 6 year old MacBook Pro.  I must say that I'm not at all impressed with the latest offering with respect to absence of SC card and USB slots, limited RAM expansion, and relatively high price for the privilege.  So much for a 'Pro' model where Apple reduces convenience/functionality. I've not bought one yet but I don't want a PC...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...