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The viewfinder improvements and new EVF are enough for me to justify the upgrade to M10. I think the importance of these two items (how we view our subjects) is way understated since the specifications have been released.

 

I think once the reviews start popping up everywhere many folks will change their minds because being able to "see" our subjects and focus accurately is the most important aspect in my opinion.

 

Thus, the upgrade is much more significant than many people are letting on.

Totally agree.

 

I also think Leica's timing, improvements, and naming looks very well targeted at the M9 owners, and Leica only knows how many of those were sold. Add to that the usual poaching from dSLR users tired of carrying photo rucksacks laden with multiple heavy zoom lenses, plus dedicated M customers who find each upgrade impossible to resist, and I expect Leica are going to sell truck loads of the M10.

Well done I say.

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As I understand it a lot of work went into the concept of a hybrid with a proper mechanical rangefinder and as far as I remember it there were two main problems 1. that it was impossible to get the EVF there without compromising the OVF 2. that any sort of overlay (like the Fuji has) relies very strongly on accurate focusing distance analysis together with aperture etc which the lens sends to the camera . . . . . but M lenses can't send this information meaning that it would be impossible to g

You could have argued the M3 was a dead end. The M10 looks very similar. The basic shape and ergonomics have not changed in 60 years! You could also argue the M3 was already a mature product, or very nearly. A built-in exposure meter was perhaps the biggest improvement, until the digital era. Now you have a digital sensor and the ability to conjure up pictures in virtually all light conditions. That's amazing.   Agree, the M10  is not revolutionary; it's evolutionary. But why do we need consta

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EVF will be improved from the VISO020. Reported earlier and a welcome upgrade.

 

The viewfinder improvements and new EVF are enough for me to justify the upgrade to M10. I think the importance of these two items (how we view our subjects) is way understated since the specifications have been released.

 

I think once the reviews start popping up everywhere many folks will change their minds because being able to "see" our subjects and focus accurately is the most important aspect in my opinion.

 

Thus, the upgrade is much more significant than many people are letting on.

 

 

 

It could be if the improvements are as great as you suggest. 

 

Let's hope they are. I'm still equally interested in the sensor. For me, it's the combination of, and balance between viewing, handling and output that make a compelling camera. Or otherwise.

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HUGE correction to make....the evf will be the visoflex 020. My apologies.

 

There may be a new one coming that will work with the M10 but I am not sure if this information is 100% correct.

 

Blahhh. Hopefully the new viewfinder makes up for it. I might be able to send more details this afternoon, keeping my fingers crossed...

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HUGE correction to make....the evf will be the visoflex 020. My apologies [...]

 

Yes that's what some of us did expect  for a long time. Could be one of the main concerns for M240 users so no pre-order from me for now.

Edited by lct
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I'm certainly curious, but in no hurry.  I just sold one M240 for a reasonable price, and got a second, reconditioned SL, also for a reasonable (in Leicaworld) price.  Now I can keep the R adapter on one SL and the M adapter on the other... And the APO 50 on the remaining 240.

 

scott

Edited by scott kirkpatrick
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I should add that I'm not at all trashing the M10 which looks fabulous. I'd upgrade from an M9 as I'm not into the CCD CMOS debate, I just don't think the upgrade from the M240 or it's iterations is justified unless the sensor is significantly better.

 

I wonder if we are still on 'PUSH' 100 ISO? I mean 'PULL'!

Edited by bybrett
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I've been tossing and turning since the specs came out and viewing a load of Q ISO 50K DNG's

 

I shoot very deliberately - started my pro career after art school as a 4x5 architectural shooter which set my style of shooting.  I street shot occasionally for several yrs living in NYC but I always thought that form is a mix of using people (strangers), journalism and at its best - political activism.  To me, not an 'art'.

 

I loved the M9, the 240 more so.  I shoot everything for 17x22" print which go up in my home in themed series', culminating in a weekend salon show for friends (most are artists or creatives of one stripe or another) and family.  I've had it with galleries, and also have a busy unrelated business to run.  I only do personal work now - and have since 7 yrs old.

 

Lately many shots have been in pretty darn low light.  After experimentation, shooting on a tripod @ 320 ISO between 2 & 10 seconds produces totally clean results.  No noise reduction needed, full DR & popping colors with the help of full Photoshop.

 

Do I really need to take these shots hand-held?  No, because I'm on a tripod, using LV instead of the ground glass of a 4x5.  Obviously focus is not an issue - the 10x magnification stands in for a loupe.

 

I've decided to stick to my guns and wait a few yrs until M10's start showing up on the used market as I did M9 to 240.  Money isn't an issue - continuing to master the 240 is.  The 1st time I had a big Leica transition was from a IIIf to an M3 and post war lenses.  The change from Canon 5D (my 1st full frame) to M9 brought me home.

 

I don't see the 10 as being as much better as the 9 to the 240 turned out to be - for my purposes, particularly LV and better screen.

 

If side by side comparisons prove me wrong - I'll be calling my dealer that day!

 

All that said, there is an M10 in my future for sure - the only question is when.  I make so much work (roughly 125 final prints/year) I've earned Leica's best / most current.

 

Good luck everyone!

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Still waiting on price confirmation in UK , about £5500 has been unofficially mentioned .

 

This sounds about right on the basis of the Japanese pricing, though lord knows what will happen in the coming months as the pound slumps to Euro parity

If this is right I hope I'll have more to report (and pictures) as I'm #2 and #3 on my dealer's list for two bodies... All I have to do then is to find a loving home for a pair of very clean, house trained M-240s

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Something is definitely wrong on this forum. Last time I remember there was a new M announced, there was a total meltdown, hopelessness, high emotions and a lot of bickering. What's going on today? Things seem suspiciously calm

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Trying to get a sense of the difference in size of the optical viewfinder comparing M240 and M10.  It does look as if diopter users are going to have to get new ones

 

Annoyed about this as the design hasn't changed since the M6... But if the new RF is really good, it will be a small price to pay I suppose...

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T/X Typ20 EVF is the icing on the "not buying this" cake for me..

 

BTW - if they claim the existing EVF provides GPS function to this new M, take that with a large grain of salt.

Was advertised on the X Type 113 and never actually worked, even after multiple FW patches.

Leica store / website / menus never admitted such either.

Maybe the GPS works on the T, and will on the M, but I'd wait for some user reports.

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Nah, it's only available as a pdf in the camera.... that's why it's got wifi, so you can read it on your phone 

 

That would actually be a really cool feature.

Some other ones which I think would be really cool are:

  1. using NTP, the network time protocol, over the WiFi to keep the time up to date
  2. over the air firmware updates via WiFi
  3. using the Visoflex 020's GPS to keep the time set and setting the timezone. Since Time Zone data changes all the time, this would also require downloading the TZDATA over WiFi.
  4. using location data gathered from a smartphone app to geotag photos.
  5. a published API, application programming interface for the protocol between the app and camera.
  6. using HTTPS with a proper signed certificate when browsing images with a web browser. Each camera would be required to have a unique certificate.
  7. The option to encrypt images when necessary
  8. DNG files that are digitally signed by the camera so that the integrity of the raw image data could be verified. This is different than encryption and would require a change to the DNG file format in coordination with Adobe.

Those are kind of fun nice to have features but what I really want out of a digital M camera is:

  1. More dynamic range at low ISO
  2. More bits of color per pixel this probably goes hand in hand with more dynamic range. 
  3. A true bulb mode or the ability to turn off dark frame subtraction for astrophotography and light painting.
  4. Thinner is great, a bit lighter would be even better. I'm happy with Aluminum vs. Brass in many places.
  5. Some sort of haptic indication or stop when going from 1/4000 to B on the shutter speed wheel.
  6. The external charger takes USB-C in addition to or along side AC power. 
  7. Much faster review of photos especially in grid mode - probably the Maestro II processor will fix this. 
  8. The ability to turn on some indication the when you cross 1/FD when selecting the shutter speed. I thought something like changing the frame lines to the other color would be easy to do. So if you have the red frame lines active and you have a 50mm lens and you are slowing down the shutter speed and you go to 1/30 the frame lines become white so that you know you are in the "be careful zone".
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Trying to get a sense of the difference in size of the optical viewfinder comparing M240 and M10. It does look as if diopter users are going to have to get new ones

M240_M10.png

 

Annoyed about this as the design hasn't changed since the M6... But if the new RF is really good, it will be a small price to pay I suppose...

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