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New Leica TL System announced

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Maybe take your ideas to a Sony forum

 ?

 

dunk 

Actually there is not need for that.

 

Sony have a large customer base with feed back, that they learn from.

There is such a rich variety of accessories readily available on ebay,

Late model sony cameras such as the A7R lend themselves from the very start for customer intervention. They allow the customer to program his own plugins into the factory firmware and to upload these plugins into the camera.

 

Actually Sony has solved all and any of the issues that Leica even refuses to aknowledge.

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floramobil it is rare that I see such appalling responses when people like billinghambaglady and others have gone out of their way to help you.

 

I put it to you that you are a troll who enjoys nothing more than stirring people up.

 

If you don't like the camera then go and buy an alternative make, you knew when your bought it that it didn't support a proprietary cable release, so why did you still buy it when there was no machined attachment for the camera.

 

Instead of whingeing like an old woman, get rid of the camera, buy an alternative brand and join a forum who appeals to your taste and rudeness and forget all about Leica, full stop, I'm sure that Leica will not miss your patronage!

 

I have found in business that people with your outlook are so narrow minded that even when people try to help you that they are spurned and insulted.

 

Huhuuu, come on, spend some time reading before you ask questions that have long been answered.

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Actually there is not need for that.

 

Sony have a large customer base with feed back, that they learn from.

There is such a rich variety of accessories readily available on ebay,

Late model sony cameras such as the A7R lend themselves from the very start for customer intervention. They allow the customer to program his own plugins into the factory firmware and to upload these plugins into the camera.

 

Actually Sony has solved all and any of the issues that Leica even refuses to aknowledge.

 

 

Because of their idiosyncrasies e.g. shutter vibration … with is why I ditched my A7R.

 

dunk 

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Because of their idiosyncrasies e.g. shutter vibration … with is why I ditched my A7R.

 

dunk 

Well you got it. Of course there were true reasons for experimenting with a Leica T.

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May I remind members that fighting is not allowed on this forum. One participant has already been warned.

Please keep the discussion civil.

Well, my apologies if my boo hoo hoo was seen as fighting. Trying to help this guy and getting nothing but insulted and unreasonable responses, I let off some of my steam with humor. I did take the time to find out why his Android might possibly not work. Thanks for the warning.

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I did take the time to find out why his Android might possibly not work.

 

The process is called "software debugging". This can only be done by somebody who has both access to the code of the App and to the communications protocol.

There is nothing a forum member can contribute, neither anything I ask for in this forum.

 

Leica essentially have two possible ways to go, if they choose to aknowledge the issue and to solve it:

They can either give the communications protocol for their Leica T into the public domain. That is what any reasonable company in their situation would do.

Or they can set up a working customer feedback cycle. That would begin with a button in the current version of the software that leads to a feedback form. That is would a decent manufacturer could do, if he cares about his customer needs.

 

Instead, while I keep waiting forever for my Android phone to discover the Leica T after the Wifi connection already established,  I can see a button, saying "discover Leica T". This button does not relate in whatever way to my needs. It neither calls a troubleshooting routine, nor does it engage into the feedback of customer's observations. It is just a link to the usual Leica hogwash about the Magnesium-Titanium-Aluminum-Copper-Wolfram alloy casing that has been polished by a Portugese for 40 minutes.

 

The Portuguese who earned 15 Euro per hour to handpolish that casing is apparently more important, than the Indian software engineer who was given 15 Euro a day do provide an alpha version of what once in the future might turn out to be a working app. (In case they paid for some Indian software developper, Yet, who knows, maybe it was just a Chinese student who hacks android apps at 15cents a day sitting on his bunk bed).

Edited by floramobil

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Your comments could be deemed racist. 

 

dunk 

 

I rather don't engage in political discussion in this context. The estimates for salaries are based on regular reading of mainstream newspapers and on carefully researched information of who developes firmware for Swiss made devices and what little actually is required in terms of equipment to hack some android apps.

 

The conclusion who is regarded important and who not in Leica's food chain is based on the content of the website I am linked to when I attempt at feeding back my observatons.

As I mentioned earlier: I am literal in what I say. I do not indulge in hidden meanings.

Edited by floramobil

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Your comments are laced with politically incorrect commentary, whether you care to acknowledge it or not. You have opined ad nauseum that you feel Leica is not spending enough money on software development and customer responsiveness. 

 

While I'm 'enjoying' the banter - as one might if one were attending a wrestling match! - why are you bothering to continue to whine to a forum that has heard your complaints?

 

Live with Leica for whatever about it is good for you, or move, on if you feel you have better options. Simple.

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The process is called "software debugging". This can only be done by somebody who has both access to the code of the App and to the communications protocol.

There is nothing a forum member can contribute, neither anything I ask for in this forum.

 

Leica essentially have two possible ways to go, if they choose to aknowledge the issue and to solve it:

They can either give the communications protocol for their Leica T into the public domain. That is what any reasonable company in their situation would do.

Or they can set up a working customer feedback cycle. That would begin with a button in the current version of the software that leads to a feedback form. That is would a decent manufacturer could do, if he cares about his customer needs.

 

Instead, while I keep waiting forever for my Android phone to discover the Leica T after the Wifi connection already established, I can see a button, saying "discover Leica T". This button does not relate in whatever way to my needs. It neither calls a troubleshooting routine, nor does it engage into the feedback of customer's observations. It is just a link to the usual Leica hogwash about the Magnesium-Titanium-Aluminum-Copper-Wolfram alloy casing that has been polished by a Portugese for 40 minutes.

 

The Portuguese who earned 15 Euro per hour to handpolish that casing is apparently more important, than the Indian software engineer who was given 15 Euro a day do provide an alpha version of what once in the future might turn out to be a working app. (In case they paid for some Indian software developper, Yet, who knows, maybe it was just a Chinese student who hacks android apps at 15cents a day sitting on his bunk bed).

Software debugging. First, know if your version on Android is even supported. If not, which you haven't bothered to reveal here, then not Leica's problem. If it is 4.4 or higher, then you have a reason to complain. That's the first step in debugging.

 

I am done trying to converse with your ranting on and on. And I think everyone else is too.

Edited by billinghambaglady

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Exactly.

I was really looking for something to shoot 50mm-ish equivalent with AF, and maybe decent video.

I love my Q.  I want something as enjoyable to use @ the 50mm mark.  I do have an M240 I enjoy, but I want a longer lens AF as well..

 

I am toying with m4/3 right now as it is cheap, small, great AF, IBIS, and great video, but its not nearly as enjoyable.

 

X line is 35mm equiv and not fast enough AF (coming from Q & m4/3).

SL is waaay too big/heavy for me.  (NOTE I said FOR ME.  It is perfectly fine weight/size given its pro market target)

Existing T didn't excite me at all, especially at the price.  TL rebake for more $$ is even worse.

 

It sounds like you are in the market for a Fujifilm X-Pro 2 or X-T2!

 

- Vikas

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Wow. How did we get here?

 

My issues are proven to be with all T cameras. And have been around since version 1.

I have reported through Leica support, camera shops, Leica support in Australia and beta testers. So far to no avail.

 

The issue are with manual focus. TL, M and R.

1. You can pause the image processing of the buffer if you are too quick to half press the shutter after taking a shot.

It is paused for as long as you hold the shutter for.

An end user should never be able to do this. Ever!

 

2. If the buffer has more than 1 image in it, you have to wait for the entire buffer to be written to card before the image preview disappears and you can see through the live view again. This can be 20-30 seconds using internal memory.

Contrast this to auto focus, where a half press of a shutter cancels the image preview even if there are images being written to card.

Basically we have a camera that has a 12 image buffer, but in manual focus you can only see the last image taken while it is processing.

 

My observations on this.

The auto focus system must cancel the image preview.

A better way would be to observe the image preview setting you have chosen, and once that duration has passed, go back to live view automatically, and just have the number of images in the buffer displayed.

And also have it so when you half press the shutter it doesn't hold the image, but goes back to live view as quickly as possible. So you can frame up the next shot.

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Having been using my film CL for the last few days, just to check all is well, before I take it on my trip to SE Asia tomorrow, makes me realise how much I would like a full frame CL sized digital rangefinder or RF/hybrid with M bayonet. Apart from having to compromise a bit on battery capacity, if you think how much Apple crams into an iPhone SE, surely electronics for a digital camera can be reduced in size from what started 10 years ago in the M8. I don't want a crop frame as I want to use my M lenses at their "natural" focal length. 

 

Wilson

+1

Exactly my thoughts!

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I was reading Sony are stopping production of their 16MP sensors.

I remember reading somewhere that the T uses a Sony sensor.

 

I wonder if this will effect production of the TL.

(Fuji just discontinued their 10 month old X70 which uses this sensor. )

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I was reading Sony are stopping production of their 16MP sensors.

I remember reading somewhere that the T uses a Sony sensor.

 

I wonder if this will effect production of the TL.

(Fuji just discontinued their 10 month old X70 which uses this sensor. )

 

I am sure it is just because they are improving them to 20 or 24MP, hopefully for the TL2. 

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This is not the first time Leica launched a slightly modified camera after about two thirds of the expected market life. The M9 (I believe) comes to mind which boasted a harder screen cover and an increased internal buffer as well as a slightly modified name.

 

Besides, the new T a.k.a. TL has an increased buffer as well, and some people might find that attractive.

 

I can't understand all that ball dropping and so on. If you already own a T and it's good enough, then it is good enough. If you don't own a T and the TL is still not good enough, look for a camera which fits the bill. 

 

Yeah it seems to me like the T to TL is roughly equivalent to M9->M9P or the M->M-P rather than being more like the transition from the  M9 to the M240. Given that, I'd say the TL isn't really the long awaited T2.

 

One thing that can be lost in the spec race between camera vendors is that even when the next version of the camera is released, the old version continues to take good pictures. If it isn't limiting your ability to take good pictures, then you don't need to upgrade.

 

I kind of think that Leica may be well positioned for the future. Unlike many other vendors whose business model has been based the continual churn of new cameras keeping consumers on the treadmill of churn, and whose manufacturing economy and efficiency requires high volumes. Leica's small volume production and slow product turnover may be better suited to the evolving reality where most people just use their smartphones and only people who have some skill and a desire to take better photographs than can be achieved by a smartphone.

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Actually Sony has solved all and any of the issues that Leica even refuses to aknowledge.

 

 

...except image quality and simple user interface...

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I have a T and a Sony A7.. I wind up using the T more just because it feels great to shoot it. It's not what I would use for sports or event work, but it's wonderful for the sheer pleasure of photography. The IQ and lenses are great and it's small. Not in a hurry to upgrade.

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