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New Leica TL System announced

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Sorry for posting german. I think you missnderstood my post. I posten that my AF does work fine and I dont understand all the complains.

 

Hi Tom,

 

My German is very basic, but I thought your copy was possibly defective (ist mein Exemplar defekt?). Sorry

But it was fun trying.

 

Cheers,

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… for Canon lenses .

 

 The T/TL camera system was designed from the outset to utilise M lens performance on a Leica crop sensor ICL camera - but for those who already have M lenses.    Primarily it was designed to use the excellent TL / SL lenses. 

 

Please read TL lens users' opinions especially those who have many, many, years experience of using diverse varieties of all types of lenses.  There are plenty of truly excellent TL lens images posted on the forum. 

 

And the Canon M system has not exactly achieved its sales targets. 

 

dunk

Interesting Dunk.

I wonder why then Leica cripple the manual focusing performance by not linking pressing the shutter to cancelling the image preview.

Or why if you are quick to half press the shutter after firing off a shot you can pause the T from processing the buffer for as long as you hold the shutter button for.

In auto-focus mode, the auto focus system must do this job of clearing the preview.

 

Why after 2 years of me complaining about it doesn't it bother anyone else?

The joy of using M lenses would be greatly enhanced if they did this...

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Interesting Dunk.

I wonder why then Leica cripple the manual focusing performance by not linking pressing the shutter to cancelling the image preview.

Or why if you are quick to half press the shutter after firing off a shot you can pause the T from processing the buffer for as long as you hold the shutter button for.

In auto-focus mode, the auto focus system must do this job of clearing the preview.

 

Why after 2 years of me complaining about it doesn't it bother anyone else?

The joy of using M lenses would be greatly enhanced if they did this...

 

 

You are not the only one remarking this, we are at least two (and I also would like to disable when necessary the exposure simulation).

 

I was a few days ago in a Leica Store asking if the new firmware would include these features but the answer was that they simply didn't know it!

 

So let's wait until someone has the new camera in the hands and will report us 

 

robert

 

PS: maybe the marketing department prefers T users but T/TL lenses instead to use the M lenses they already have...

Edited by robert blu

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You are not the only one remarking this, we are at least two (and I also would like to disable when necessary the exposure simulation).

 

I was a few days ago in a Leica Store asking if the new firmware would include these features but the answer was that they simply didn't know it!

 

 

The refusal to communicate on part of Leica is the real frustrating part of the story. They want us to go to their specialist sellers, but those have not a tiny piece of information available beyond of what we know from the Leica website.

 

Leica show off a glossy website with their customer service, yet give no indication whatever, that they hear any of our suggestions or take our needs as photographers for real.

 

After years of dealing with shareware developpers such as Ed Hamrick of Vuescan, I am used to a different kind of response, namely people who pick up users' needs and return within a weeks time with a software version ready for testing a solution. This is what firmware and Android apps are about: You can hack into the system and adapt.

 

Leica don't. Why? Because they are Leica and because they prefer spending 40 minutes on handpolishing the shell of each piece of their hardware instead of spending 40 hours on solving an issue for their whole customer base.

Why? Because they are Leica and they are either perfect or not at all. Since we are not satisfied, it does not mean Leica should improve. It only means, we are not the customers they have in mind. So do away with the customers and have Leica live their own dream of perfection.

 

Today I was trying to obtain a Leica T lens bayonet, because I want to adapt a Baader Planetarium "Universal Filter Changer" in between a Leica T Camera and a Leica R RF Rokkor 800 lens. Ghosh, think about it twice! That pity of a customer! He came up with an idea of his own!

Edited by floramobil

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You are not the only one remarking this, we are at least two (and I also would like to disable when necessary the exposure simulation).

 

I was a few days ago in a Leica Store asking if the new firmware would include these features but the answer was that they simply didn't know it!

 

So let's wait until someone has the new camera in the hands and will report us 

 

robert

 

PS: maybe the marketing department prefers T users but T/TL lenses instead to use the M lenses they already have...

I went to Leica Australia in December last year and demonstrated all the issues with the T to their product manager and service manager. (After trying to go through Leica support directly in Germany).

They were very helpful. Noted they hadn't seen the issues before. Got out some of their T cameras to make sure what I was seeing on mine unit wasn't a once off.

We all confirmed that it was the firmware at fault.

However I believe the issues have been lost in translation somewhere, and that maybe the guys in Germany have had other priorities.

 

The Leica guys asked me to make a video of the issues, to which I refused as I was busy at the time.

I decided to purchase the SL to remove the issues altogether.

However when it came to sell the T, I didn't want to. I hoped that a firmware was just around the corner that would somehow fix all my issues, then I would be happy to keep the T along side of the SL.

 

A year has passed by and nothing yet.

I have volunteered for the firmware beta program and hopefully will be included next time they are testing...

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However I believe the issues have been lost in translation somewhere, and that maybe the guys in Germany have had other priorities.

 

However when it came to sell the T, I didn't want to. I hoped that a firmware was just around the corner that would somehow fix all my issues, then I would be happy to keep the T along side of the SL.

 

A year has passed by and nothing yet.

I have volunteered for the firmware beta program and hopefully will be included next time they are testing...

 

Leica show their brand of autism. Either it is them and it is perfect or it is not at all. Never ever go for an idea coming from the customes. Beware of customers!

 

And be it for that: Beware of real photographers! Do not deal with real experience that goes beyond the hogwash of their advertising department and the bling bling of their designer team.

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Leica show their brand of autism. Either it is them and it is perfect or it is not at all. Never ever go for an idea coming from the customes. Beware of customers!

 

And be it for that: Beware of real photographers! Do not deal with real experience that goes beyond the hogwash of their advertising department and the bling bling of their designer team.

 

 

Seriously, that's a bit much.

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Seriously, that's a bit much.

Nill, it is too little and not much in any possible indication of the term.

 

Customer relations usually consists of listening to the customers you have in the real world, not just regressing into the phantasms of your own splendour.

 

Look at their website: What do they tell you about their camera? I mean really, in terms of INFORMATION? These website gestalters and texters lack whatever knowledge of a photographer's craft. They live in a different world.

 

Look at their response to photographers' needs as posted in this forum. Two years ago they started using wealthy customers as their Beta testers. Two years later, their camera is still in Beta, yet it gets a splendid 16MB more memory.

 

What is the turnaround time between the information on the shortcomings of the firmware and resolving the issue? If the issue is complex, then we might allow for two to three months. Yet how long did it take them to get the Autofocus at least halfway working?

 

What about the Android App? Once the communication protocol is in the public domain programmer enthusiasts will go about it and provide solutions on a short cycle. Leica prefer to do it on their own and keep us waiting. And now I am faced with an Android App where its intended functions (such as selecting shutter speed) fail and where basing functions (such as time lapse) are missing.

 

What about OEM hardware enhancements? Changes to original hardware? Giving away technical information required? How does it happen, I am not even allowed to obtain a lens bayonett required to adapt a filter changer between Leica T and R lens?

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I don't want in any way to diminish your suffering which you do well to detail in your second post, I was merely protesting the generalisations of the first one. 

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Guest VVJ

After years of dealing with shareware developpers such as Ed Hamrick of Vuescan, I am used to a different kind of response, namely people who pick up users' needs and return within a weeks time with a software version ready for testing a solution. This is what firmware and Android apps are about: You can hack into the system and adapt.

 

 

I am afraid your expectations might be a little bit unrealistic.  Do you believe you would get that kind of response from Sony or Fuji?

Edited by JorisV

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I'm personally disappointed by the lack of communication and of attention to the customers from Leica.

 

But I do not think they do it on purpose, when I was in Wetzlar a few months ago with a small group of friends (Leica enthusiasts) they met with us and dedicated a lot of time.

 

I believe that it's a question of priorities, Leica is not an huge company and I assume give it's R&D energy where a major profit can be done, higher sales are expected.

Which probably means the S, SL, M and  Q series, all full frame. Of course without knowing any figures these are only assumptions.

 

The T/TL has always been in a kind of Limbo with probably a minor priority. I find strange that some firmware adjustment, minor adjustment but very important for some client have not yet been implemented. Being the T/TL the only available pas-c with interchangeable lenses from Leica.

 

robert

PS: as for my self in search of a small digital camera to use beside my film M (my Leica x1 is old!)   and for which I already waited enough I'll probably go reluctantly in a different direction, not a big problem for Leica 

life goes on ! But if I invest money in a body and a couple of good lenses it will be difficult to go back if a TL2 should arrive on the market...

Edited by robert blu

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Guest VVJ

Robert,

 

I pretty much agree with what you are saying.

 

I see the Leica T as the prequel to the Leica Q and the Leica SL and I was expecting the same improvements and refinements to come to the T2 as well.

 

My disappointment was huge when the "new" TL only added a color (which I don't need) and some internal memory (which I also don't need).

 

Time will tell I guess.  My fear is that the TL2 is at least 2-3 years away (after the S and the SL have been upgraded)...

 

Best, Joris.

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I am afraid your expectations might be a little bit unrealistic.  Do you believe you would get that kind of response from Sony or Fuji?

 

I can not offer any experience with Fuji. I am in the proces of learning about Sony, but I can not comment on them for now. Years of experience with Nikon, yes, they do respond. Either they respond themselves or they put the necessary information out and let others respond (and trail along making money of their own).

Edited by floramobil

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I don't want in any way to diminish your suffering which you do well to detail in your second post, I was merely protesting the generalisations of the first one. 

 

It has been a very general observation with Leica and it is the factual statement of their customer service in Switzerland: "Either we repair to factory specifications or we do not touch it." No space whatever for customers special requirements.

Edited by floramobil

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Hmmmmm. I get along with my two T cameras just fine. You know, they do what they do and haven't run into problems that bother me in the least. Maybe I am not as picky about technology, so my expectations are not so demanding of the T. After all, even at full price they are about a quarter that of an M. The T takes great photos for what it is.

Edited by billinghambaglady

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Hmmmmm. I get along with my two T cameras just fine. You know, they do what they do and haven't run into problems that bother me in the least. Maybe I am not as picky about technology, so my expectations are not so demanding of the T. After all, even at full price they are about a quarter that of an M. The T takes great photos for what it is.

 

Basically you say, your needs are within the factory specification of the camera. You are the ideal inconspicious customer without any special requirements. You are the ideal customer who does not communicate, who does not pass on information, who does not place requests. You are the customer Leica wants and who makes Leica happy.

 

They should award you a medal: Leica's customer of the year.

Edited by floramobil

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Basically you say, your needs are within the factory specification of the camera. You are the ideal inconspicious customer without any special requirements. You are the ideal customer who does not communicate, who does not pass on information, who does not place requests. You are the customer Leica wants and who makes Leica happy.

 

They should award you a medal: Leica's customer of the year.

 

 

Sarcasm and bile directed at people who happen to be satisfied with a product, now's that's just not very elegant at all, is it?

 

If you're not happy with it, that's fine, complain all you like. We don't have to all hold hands and sing along though, do we?

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Sarcasm and bile directed at people who happen to be satisfied with a product, now's that's just not very elegant at all, is it?

 

I am being literal and not dealing in sarcasm:

There are customers who do not request anything from Leica apart from having a camera that takes pictures. Such are the customers who conform with factory specifications. They do not place requests beyond what Leica devise on their own. They do not attempt to feed back information to Leica.

 

Words that are never received, never aknowledged, never requested be it for that, such words are not "information", because nobody is being informed. Leica are not prepared to receive information from their customers. The only customers they can deal with, are those who conform with their design and advertising departments.

 

Should Leica actually happen to realize that there are such conforming customers out there, and should they aknowledge their existence by awarding the medal for the best conforming Leica owner, then this would be true progress:

In that event Leica would at least have aknowledged that they truly have customers grown from flesh and blood.

Edited by floramobil

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